Page 1 of 1

Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:07 pm
by drcdb15
How embarassing is this? Had the car for years, yet only today noticed as I watched from afar as the MoT tester checked all the lights, that... MB61 has odd rear lamps!! That is, the lenses don't match. They're both (from the outside) orange/red/red/white/red, but the two oranges are very slightly different widths, whilst the grating pattern moulded onto the whites are not the same as each other. When I got the car back (it passed despite the odd lighting) closer inspection revealed one lens from Hella in Germany, and the other from an Austrian maker, I couldn't make out any brand or logo that looked like one. I haven't taken them off the car yet to see what the base units are like.

Now I know all about the various conversions for SE6X rears, leds etc and units from eastern Europe, even got a set myself that Dave Mac fitted on my ill-fated V8. And I know Will has written up his various LED tests for MB14 in a past MESSAge and on Mick's website. But I cannot recall ever having seen anything about what the OE MB rear lamps were. Does anyone know an original part number and supplier (ie Hella, Lucas etc - not the MB/Reliant part number)?

I had of course been considering fitting LED bulbs of some type for ages, but finding the lenses are different means I really need to get complete new units to ensure they are matched. So this will be either OEM if I can find out what that is, or some aftermarket complete unit, analogous to those use by many folks in their SE6Xs. I am guessing the MB light clusters are not the same size as on the SE6X - is that correct? Anyone got any suggestions for aftermarket units that can be fitted? I don't mind cutting the body about a bit, provided it's not too radical.

Thanks

Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:20 pm
by Will Anderson
Chris, from what I know the lamp is a Hella as fitted to the VW T2Transporter, like this on eBay
s-l1600 (2).jpg
s-l1600 (2).jpg (211.1 KiB) Viewed 683 times
Not sure if there is an early/late difference but the early cars like MB14 did not use the rear fog section but relied on the separate fogs below the rubber bumper as per the 6b.

Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:40 pm
by midscotscim
Middlebridge would have procured these in quantity to reduce costs so it is unlikely there are differences in the units they fitted when new. Most likely a previous owner has replaced a single unit after one has been damaged and has not selected quite the right version. I recall Bob getting these for MB22, which had the colour coded bumpers, at the time they were really cheap so bought an extra couple for spares.

Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:42 pm
by drcdb15
Will Anderson wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:20 pm
Not sure if there is an early/late difference but the early cars like MB14 did not use the rear fog section but relied on the separate fogs below the rubber bumper as per the 6b.
Thanks for that Will. Looks like the non-Hella one is the imposter, then. Maybe I can get away with just a new Hella lens, if I get an old one it might be suffieciently aged to look OK. At least the fitting screws look to be in the same place.

On MB61 the rear fogs are the 'fifth' section, and there is no separate fog lamp. Of course, how do I know if that is standard? Once you find one part that's been substituted you don't trust any other part to be 'correct' :w
Agreed value  20190431 DSCN6145.JPG
Agreed value 20190431 DSCN6145.JPG (235.74 KiB) Viewed 677 times

Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:52 pm
by Will Anderson
This is the lamp as fitted to MB67. I can get the part number off the lens of MB14 if it helps?

Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:53 pm
by drcdb15
In my researching this request, I came across this video from Spyida which I'm surprised to see dates from 2015. Will's item linked to the Spyida web site but they don't mention the video, though they do list the MB units in stock starting at £3 ... :shock: :shock: :shock: They're revamping their web site so probably find this price gets revised too :lol:


Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:03 am
by drcdb15
Will Anderson wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:52 pm
This is the lamp as fitted to MB67. I can get the part number off the lens of MB14 if it helps?
Thanks for the offer Will but please don't go to this trouble. I need to get both lenses off and see what's what underneath. It's good just to know that Hella was the OEM. Provided the screws line up and the lenses are interchangeable on the bases then that will be enough for me to go on in finding a properly matching lens. So many thanks for that :D Then when I have sorted the lens I can think about the LEDs.

Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:25 pm
by turbster
Opie oils had all the variations of these on their website last time I was looking for some.

Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:26 pm
by drcdb15
midscotscim wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:40 pm
Most likely a previous owner has replaced a single unit after one has been damaged and has not selected quite the right version.
Not quite right is an understatement! I took the lenses off today and what I found inside explains a lot...

Before the MoT, SWMBO was watching the rear lights as I tested them and she said "one of them seems not very bright..." - turns out there was about 1/2 inch of plastic in front of the bulb !

I found the brand - "ZKW". The internal partitions are different; the orange wrap-around; the internal lensing; and the Hella orange is about 4mm longer than the ZKW. Depsite all this, they do seem interchangeable and I can't see any difference at all between the base units, so I think you must be right, a PO has fitted a pattern lens.

The good news is that eBay is awash with these lenses, for only around £15 each, so whether genuine Hella or not (and doubtless 'not' at that price!) it is at least feasible to get two lenses that match. For anyone else looking, the Hella part number to look for is 9EL122689-021. Every manufacturer using Hella as OEM then issues its own part number, so you will find at least 30 or more equivalents for different vehicle makers, mainly European truck firms like Mann and Scania, and trailers too, Krone etc. Also, as Will mentioned, look for VW T4 (NOT T2) rear lamp and you'll find plenty.

Thanks to all for your help and comments. Search over! :D
011.JPG
011.JPG (194.66 KiB) Viewed 597 times
010.JPG
010.JPG (218.04 KiB) Viewed 597 times
009.JPG
009.JPG (245.62 KiB) Viewed 597 times
007.JPG
007.JPG (345 KiB) Viewed 597 times
006.JPG
006.JPG (315.99 KiB) Viewed 597 times
005.JPG
005.JPG (235 KiB) Viewed 597 times
004.JPG
004.JPG (224.36 KiB) Viewed 597 times

Rear lamps - OEM source?

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:18 pm
by drcdb15
Just to round this off, I have today received a pair of genuine Hella 9EL122689-021 lenses (made in Romania this time) from JD Motorsport:

JD Motorsport Ltd
David Dent
UNIT 1 RYEBROOK IND EST
KINGSTON ROAD
LEATHERHEAD
Surrey
KT22 7UE
United Kingdom
Phone:01372 361640
Email:firstlinespares@btconnect.com

priced at £12.03 each, so £24.06 delivered for the pair, in genuine Hella packaging, complete with full sets of screws.

The current eBay link is: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9EL-122-689- ... 2749.l2649

Many thanks to everyone on this thread who helped me reach this satisfactory conclusion :D