Ti gearbox capacity

Have you documented a Scimitar related procedure and would like to share it with others? Pictures are most welcome!
Threads here also contain previous “stickies” from other sections, as a central location for quick reference information.

Moderators: scimjim, philhoward, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington, Lukeyboy46

User avatar
reliant-reviver
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4599
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:05 pm
Location: Beighton, Sheffield
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 107 times

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by reliant-reviver » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:58 pm

S'pose I could make up the difference with sawdust? :roll:

I've got enough SX75-90 or EP80-90 in a GL5 grade, but only a litre of EP80-90 GL4 left... off to the shops tomorrow then?


Philip Andrew.
'74 Robin Super Saloon, '84 SS1 1300, '86 SS1 1800ti, '87 SS1 1300
Previous: I lost count around fifty.

User avatar
Oaksey
RSSOC Member
Posts: 5508
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:45 pm
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 107 times
Contact:

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by Oaksey » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:03 pm

Ben Kenobe wrote:My Scirrocco was a GTII, was all fine until the fuel filler corroded through
The filler pipe corroded in mine aswell. The clutch was also high, the brakes were rubbish and the sunroof didn't open, but it managed to let all the rain through :lol:
I still liked it though

P.S sorry for going very, very off topic


Josh Oakes
2015, 2016 and 2017 SSSC Champion
1974 Yellow Se5a Overdrive
1971 Blue Jaguar XJ6
1966 Blue Coupe Straight Six
Previous- Coupe S6,
SS1 Ti, E90 SS1 Ti, SE6a x3, SE5 Auto, SS1 CVH, Mk2 Sabre, Rebel Estate

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 35823
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by scimjim » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:07 pm

I'm going with GL4 having read this - read the quote from Nissan on page 7 :shock:

http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
reliant-reviver
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4599
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:05 pm
Location: Beighton, Sheffield
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 107 times

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by reliant-reviver » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:22 pm

Ooop, RUR are chaps!


Philip Andrew.
'74 Robin Super Saloon, '84 SS1 1300, '86 SS1 1800ti, '87 SS1 1300
Previous: I lost count around fifty.

geoffp67
Posts: 1938
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:36 am
Location: Herts
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by geoffp67 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:23 pm

shame there are no references to sources on that, it would be interesting to see where the claims made come from.
The author is probably correct, but has he made it all up ?
Anyway,
Yes RR, shopping tomorrow. See if you can better the price I got mine for :)

Traditionally, a gearbox is quietened with banana skins, known to be slippery and unlikely to contain sufficient chemicals to damage the brass bits. Sawdust will soak up the free oil making porridge. In either event the vehicle concerned is rapidly flogged to an unsuspecting punter, commonly referred to as a wally. Refs: Arthur Daleys Guide to Doing it Right, Quentin Wilson.



User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 35823
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by scimjim » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:28 pm

I agree, if he was arguing that GL5 is fine, I wouldn't link to something like that without references. As he is explaining the reasoning behind previously published and credible material - in simple terms I can understand, I don't have a problem with it.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

Ben Kenobe
RSSOC Member
Posts: 2039
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:57 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by Ben Kenobe » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:31 pm

Banana skins - we used to use sawdust ....


I write down everything I want to remember. That way, instead of spending a lot of time trying to remember what it is I wrote down, I spend the time looking for the paper I wrote it down on.

geoffp67
Posts: 1938
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:36 am
Location: Herts
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by geoffp67 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:34 pm

was that before it got spread over the pub floor or after ?



Ben Kenobe
RSSOC Member
Posts: 2039
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:57 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by Ben Kenobe » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:38 pm

Generally before ...


I write down everything I want to remember. That way, instead of spending a lot of time trying to remember what it is I wrote down, I spend the time looking for the paper I wrote it down on.

old bean
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:28 am
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by old bean » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:39 am

Told ya'll last week.. GL4 in the Ti box.. :)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17686#p194098



User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 35823
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by scimjim » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:10 pm

just to throw another moggy amongst the pigeons:

Taken from another site while doing all my research...

By Mark Macy, TRA Technical Advisor

What type of gear lube should I use in the differential? Some say to use GL-4 like in the transmission, but others say that GL-5 is O.K. since there is no brass in the rear end.

The GL-4/GL-5 myth has been around for quite some time now, based on 1 part fact and 9 parts fiction, and perpetuated by those with loads of GL-4 to sell. Read through the following commentary that was submitted to the Triumph List (www.team.net) by a chemical engineer, working in the petroleum industry, and you’ll learn that GL-4/GL-5 are performance specifications, not manufacturing specifications, and do nothing to limit the amounts of compounds harmful to the soft metals in our Triumph gearboxes.

From: Brad Jordan, Equilon Lubricants October 17, 2001

Subject: RE: Transmission/Differential Oil

At low pressure and temperatures, the viscosity of the fluid is what keeps the gear teeth apart and prevents wear. As the load and temperature increases, it becomes the job of the EP, or Extreme Pressure additives to minimize metal-to-metal contact. EP additives in lubricants chemically react under pressure and elevated temperatures with the metal in gears to form a protective film and prevent this metal-to-metal contact.

EP additives are mostly made up of Chlorine, Sulfur, Phosphorous, Zinc and Lead compounds. Due to environmental concerns, Lead is for the most part gone and Chlorine is only used in limited applications. These compounds become active at different temperatures, and therefore, if balanced properly, provide protection at all operating temperatures. The problem in the past with some Sulfur EP additive packages in gear oils and yellow metals is not how much is in the oil, but that the additive breaks down and forms an acid. This acid, if formed, would eat up yellow metals and steel alike.

The problem is the difference between what is called active and inactive Sulfur in the EP additive package. "Active" Sulfur compounds chemically react and form these protective films at much lower temperatures than "inactive" Sulfur EP additives. In some cases these "active" Sulfur additives may even stain the yellow metals in the gear sets.

Whether a particular manufacturer uses active or inactive Sulfur EP agents is really only known by them. API, GL-4 and GL-5 are performance specs, not a formulation specs. Texaco Havoline gear oil 80w-90 and Shell Spirax HD 80w-90 are the right products for this application and do not stain yellow metals. We also have synthetic products in both brands, but the smallest quantity available is a 5-gallon bucket. Most major manufacturers have steered away from formulations with active sulfur EP additives to avoid staining yellow metals. In general, I would say the API GL-5 Multigear EP SAE 80w-90 lubricants marketed by Exxon-Mobil, Chevron, BP-Amoco, Castrol, Valvoline and Pennzoil would be safe for yellow metals. Also, well-known companies such as Redline, who specialize in motorcycle and sports car racing lubricants, would have products that don't stain yellow metals. I would stay away from the smaller little known companies that may be at trade shows selling "the greatest lubricants ever". The lubricants may perform extremely well in their table top bearing test against traditional motor oils, but they typically contain active Sulfur, Chlorine and other undesirable additives.

As far as the difference between GL-4 and GL-5, API GL-4 rated lubricants do not have the EP level to withstand shock loading. Unlike API engine service classifications, API gear lubricant classifications are not required to meet the specs of lower classes and it all depends on the application. In the case of the Triumph, it probably recommends a GL-5, but even if it only recommends a GL-4, I would go with the GL-5 fluid.

So there you have it. GL-4 and GL-5 designations tell us nothing about the active sulfur content of the oil, which is the ingredient that may damage the yellow metals in our gearboxes. It’s also interesting to note that GL-4 is not as capable of withstanding shock loading as GL-5 oils (for those of you who “drive ‘em like you stole ‘em”). Personally, I’ve been using synthetic gear oils in both my gearboxes and rear differentials for over 10 years now without a single problem. For those of you who are still suspicious of synthetic products, or who have not had your gearbox or rear diff. apart for a thorough cleaning, stick with major brands of GL-5, avoid the cheap stuff and the snake oil, and you’re TR gearboxes will be just fine.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

mcclelland87
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:10 pm
Location: monkton
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by mcclelland87 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:34 am

What has people been using then 4 or 5 as putting new oil in on the weekend . Quick question hope it's not a silly one when I removed the engine and gearbox red oil came out of it but is gl4 or no brown can anyone help with this before I go to the parts shop



mcclelland87
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:10 pm
Location: monkton
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by mcclelland87 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:41 am

Phoned parts company and they said the gear oil should be brown in colour dose this mean someone put ATF in instead one day ?



User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 35823
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by scimjim » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:49 am

More likely to be MTX gear oil (hopefully).


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 24089
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 527 times
Contact:

Re: Ti gearbox capacity

Post by philhoward » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:56 am

Some synthetic gearoils are red in colour IIRC? Not just MT/MTX (which is a 75W90 synthetic from memory). CNHSS1 might know? I recall him mentioning something about synthetics some time ago.


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

Post Reply

Return to “How To Guides/FAQs”