Scimitar Sabre Mk2 Starter

Moderators: scimjim, erikscimitardemon, Lukeyboy46, Roger Pennington, philhoward

Peter S
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Dorrrset
Been thanked: 8 times

K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by Peter S » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:07 pm

Hi Sorry to raise this again but
Having decided to replace my starter motor on my Mk2 Kseries sabre I have a problem
There are no markings on the old starter [there's the remains of a grey sticker but any markings are missing or rubbed off] & my local motor factors can't match it. It's NOT a Metro GTi one or any other metro that we could see :? but it looks very similar :!:
The "nose" to too long & the orientation of the solenoid is wrong. I then suggested a 1800 sierra but they said that was different [but I did not see one]
So I'm stuck unless anybody can give me some reference numbers or the vehicle it was commonly fitted to. HELP :!:

Plan B I suppose is to get it rewired but I think I'd rather have a new or fully reconditioned one.


Peter S
Currently no Reliant but you never know!

User avatar
CNHSS1
Posts: 14309
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:13 pm
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Has thanked: 357 times
Been thanked: 297 times
Contact:

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by CNHSS1 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:19 pm

reliant used Caterham Bellhousings for the ford gearbox (and initially Caterham inlet manifolds too), so if you can find details of the relevant Caterham starter for their K series cars, i'll wager its that if not the fwd metro derived unit.

quick google turned this up?

http://www.caterhamparts.co.uk/product. ... oduct=3357


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
Image

Peter S
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Dorrrset
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by Peter S » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:52 pm

No that's not it
I did suggest Caterham but that was not in their book either [nor was looking under car reg any good!]


Peter S
Currently no Reliant but you never know!

petrolbob
RSSOC Member
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:15 pm
Location: Loggerheads Staffordshire
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by petrolbob » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:00 pm

Peter I am still sourcing one see my last post on your original thread. Its a shock to realise I have been on this trail since 5th Feb. I was told confidently that the starter is from a Sierra 1.8CVH. The trouble is we live in a world where most motor factors say "give me your reg sir" you tell them not to bother as it wont be listed and guess what "sorry sir its not listed". There are loads of variants fitted to the Sierra. So far I have been supplied with 2 and neither fit. I have a Valeo remanufactured unit fitted and the two wrongly supplied were supposed to be replacements for that Valeo part number - not so. I am collecting one later today and if it fits I will let you have the part number sraight away.



Peter S
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Dorrrset
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by Peter S » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:09 pm

There's a couple of pictures if it helps anybody. The solenoid sits vertically above the starter when in place
P1010538(1).JPG
P1010538(1).JPG (121.29 KiB) Viewed 766 times
P1010539(1).JPG
P1010539(1).JPG (107.39 KiB) Viewed 766 times


Peter S
Currently no Reliant but you never know!

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 37942
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 988 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by scimjim » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:06 pm

the mounting bolt holes don't look right for a Sierra one (bearing in mind the 1.8CVH bolted up to the type E or type 9 IIRC) - I think I have one at the farm, so can confirm tomorrow?


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

petrolbob
RSSOC Member
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:15 pm
Location: Loggerheads Staffordshire
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by petrolbob » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:21 pm

Be careful here there is no such thing as" the Sierra one". There are numerous ones depending on Sierra spec.Of the two that I returned the first was a Bosch unit with the solenoid at 90degrees to the original. The second had the solenoid in the right place with the mounting bolt holes exactly as needed. The reason it would not fit is that the motor body was marginally bigger, enough to foul a casting on the block to prevent a square fit to the bellhousing adaptor, and prevent socket extension reaching the blind bolt nearest to the block. The motors have different at least 3 ratings and I think this latter one would probably be the largest rating. Hopefully the one I shall collect later will be the right size. More later.



Peter S
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Dorrrset
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by Peter S » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:25 pm

I found a ref no on the solenoid & it was stamped Made in England so Lucas?


Peter S
Currently no Reliant but you never know!

petrolbob
RSSOC Member
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:15 pm
Location: Loggerheads Staffordshire
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by petrolbob » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:41 pm

I think the unit we are chasing is likely to be marked Motorcraft or Lucas. Not sure if solenoid information will identify the motor. The one I am returning with the marginally larger motor body is a reconditioned Delco Remy unit part number DRS 5170, in all other respects this unit is the same as the original. Presumably the one I am about to collect is same series with less power and a smaller diameter motor body. We will see.



User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 37942
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 988 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by scimjim » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:45 pm

petrolbob wrote:Be careful here there is no such thing as" the Sierra one". There are numerous ones depending on Sierra spec.
In fact, I think only the 1.6 got the 4 speed, so it's only the type 9 that was fitted to the 1.8 as far as I can see?

the Haynes manual doesn't specify engine or box combo but it can have a Bosch long frame 1.1Kw and JF, Bosch short frame and EF, Bosch DW type, Bosch DM type, Bosch EV type, Cajavec, Lucas 5M90, Lucas 8M90, Lucas M79 or Nippondenso. :shock:


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 37942
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 988 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by scimjim » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:48 pm

likewise they got the Bosch alternator, or a Lucas A115, Lucas A133, Lucas A127, Motorola 35A, 45A, 55A or 70A or the Mitsubishi unit :shock:


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 37942
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 988 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by scimjim » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:54 pm

If it is from a Sierra, going purely from the illustrations in the Haynes manual - I reckon it's a Lucas M79?


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 37942
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 988 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by scimjim » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:10 pm

Peter S wrote:No that's not it
I don't quite understand how you can be so sure Peter? is it just because it doesn't look like yours? The Caterham has the 1.4 K series with a bespoke bellhousing to mate it to the type 9 gearbox. As Craig pointed out, the Sabre has the same 1.4 K series engine with the same Caterham bellhousing mating it to the same type 9 gearbox?


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

petrolbob
RSSOC Member
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:15 pm
Location: Loggerheads Staffordshire
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by petrolbob » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:25 pm

Reliant used an alloy spacer or adaptor to fit the starter motor to the bellhousing, and takes the motor shown above. The caterham would not fit that adaptor but could possibly bolt directly to the bell housing without it. Unless there is one lying around, £229 might be an expensive trial.



User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 37942
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 988 times

Re: K series starter motor What's it off?

Post by scimjim » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:04 pm

petrolbob wrote:Reliant used an alloy spacer or adaptor to fit the starter motor to the bellhousing, and takes the motor shown above.
ah - new information, do you have a pic?


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

Post Reply

Return to “SS1/SST/Sabre”