SS1 1800TI will not start

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Jim Russell
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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by Jim Russell » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:13 pm

I had a go at doing the diagnostics detailed in the self diagnostic procedure in section EF-41 page 109 of the manual and both LEDs flash in unison so my conclusion at the moment is that the ECU has failed. Also I have looked at all the components on the ECU with a magnifying glass and nothing is obvious (burn out etc) so it is more than likely an electronic fault.

I have searched here for the ECU - bluebird etc but nothing so far is compatible.

AJL, I am not sure if you got my email, It would be much appreciated if you could have a look for the ECU that you may have. Please let me know how much you would like for it.

Do any of you know of any supplier/scrap yard that my have an ECU?

The ECU part number is A18-000 G32 - Manufacturer JECS

Other details

23710 33F00

6Y17 (I think that this a serial number).

I see that there is also a ECU repair facility ATP Electronics Ltd in the UK http://www.atpelectronics.co.uk/ , that will be a last ditch fix though, has anybody used them? Their website also detailed that the same ECU was used in the 85-86 Silvia Turbo 1.8 litre

It looks like there may be a testing/repair company here in Australia as well so I'll contact them today.

I am really missing my daily use of the SS1 :(



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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by scimjim » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:34 am

This is what Peter said (archived in members section)

Sods law part of the label on my spare is scratched but the numbers I can see are.
In big letters 96
below that 23710 33F00
and below that
A18-000 G****** ( scratched bit.

I think I have another spare somewhere but the numbers were not the same - I don't think it was a 96 - it came out of a Silvia whereas the one above is out of a SS1.

Ah Ha - found my other ( Silvia ) one.
97
23710 33F10
A18-000 G33 6x22


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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by philhoward » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:43 am

23710-33F10 is the Nissan part number; 23710 would be CA18ET ECU, but the last number denotes a sub-variant, I believe. Country spec, auto/manual..

33F00 is an '86-on Manual Transmission
33F10 is an '86-on Auto Transmission version..

Different variants will probably exist for AUS/NZ/JAP versions as I have a European fiche..
Attachments
18ET ECU.png
18ET ECU.png (109.75 KiB) Viewed 1656 times


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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by AJL Electronics » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:50 am

This is the one I have in my spares pile:
ECU.JPG
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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by AJL Electronics » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:50 am

Ah upside down. I would change it but perhaps it is appropriate that way up? ;-)


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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by philhoward » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:01 am

If it was posted through Photobucket, it would probably make its own mind up...seems to!

86-on, Manual transmission, no EGR. cat or other junk.. (that's the the anti-pollution versions)..


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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by old bean » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:44 am

Your ECU might not be faulty, you may just have a different variant of ECU (a bit Blurbirdy maybe) and it behaves differently in the diagnostic mode. These types of ECU will flash two LEDs together untill you select one of 5 diagnostic modes. To save rambling on about it I'll cut and paste some text so have a read and you'll probably find that it applies to your ECU. :)

----

The ECU has 5 modes of operation, for diagnostics codes, it has to be set to mode 3.

1. Make sure the screw next to the viewing window is turned clockwise.
2. Turn the ignition on
3. Both LEDs with flash once, then a pause, then a second time, then a pause, etc. etc. up to 5 times then will repeat the process. After is has flashed 3 times then turn the screw completely anti-clockwise. - this will select mode 3.
4. The LEDs will now flash codes. 55 means that everything is normal. The rest are written below.
5. When finished, turn the screw back to clockwise and the ECU will reset itself automatically.

Mode 1 is called the "Exhaust Gas Sensor Monitor" because it informs you about oxygen sensor activity. With the engine running and fully warmed up, the green LED should blink, going on when the sensor sends a lean signal and off when it sends a rich signal. You should see 5-10 flashes every 10 seconds. If the LED is on more than it's off, there's a lean condition, and vice versa. Sluggish blinking should make you suspect a fouled sensor.

Mode 2, the Mixture Ratio Feedback Control Monitor, lets you know whether or not the air/fuel mixture is being controlled within the proper range. If the red and green LED's flash pretty much simultaneously with the engine running, mix control is okay. If the red LED is off more often than the green one, richness is indicated. If the red is on more than its mate, think lean.

Mode 3 has the name "Self-Diagnostic," and it's more what you're used to on other vehicles because it yields fault codes, both hard and intermittent, which are communicated to you by means of the flashing of both LED's. The red one gives the first digit, and the green one the second digit. For instance, if the red flashes twice, then the green flashes once, you've got a Code 21.

Get the engine up to normal temp, preferably by driving the car for 10 minutes, then pull the codes. In the case of a no-start, crank the engine for at least two seconds. If you see 55, all is well (in older models, 44 meant the same thing). Be sure to write down any other codes because they'll be erased when you go on to Mode 4, which means you will have lost any help on intermittents. Normally, codes are retained in memory for fifty starts.

Mode 4, called the "Switches On/Off Diagnostic Mode," checks the function of the switches that serve as inputs to the ECU, specifically those for ignition key start position, idle, and vehicle speed. For the first two, the red LED will go on or off when switch status is changed. In other words, with the ignition on, the red light should illuminate both when you step on the gas pedal and when you turn the key to start. If not, check the appropriate circuit. The vehicle speed sensor lights the green LED when you exceed 12 mph (get the drive wheels off the floor to do this in the shop, or have a helper drive while you keep your eyes on the ECU).

Mode 5 ("Real-Time") gives instantaneous trouble codes to let you know what's going on right now in four monitored circuits. Codes are flashed out just once when a malfunction is detected, then they're immediately forgotten. And the way you read them is different -- you observe the flashing of one LED or the other, the red one reporting on the crank angle sensor and the fuel pump circuits, and the green on the air flow meter and ignition signal circuits.

-------------

Not all of the above will apply to a CA18ET Bluebird type ECU, mode 5 is there but I'm sure it just relays real time codes in standard format i.e one LED blinks for then the other to give standard fault codes. Mode 3 is what you'll want to try, switch it to that mode as described above and see what results you get.

That is of course if your ECU is not faulty in the first place, in which case none of this may apply! :)

Oh, and..

11 Crank Angle Sensor/Camshaft Position Sensor.
12 Air Flow Meter/Mass Air Flow Sensor.
13 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor.
14 Vehicle Speed Sensor.
21 Ignition Signal.
22 Fuel Pump.
23 Idle Switch.
24 Throttle Valve Switch.
25 Idle Speed Control Valve.



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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by scimjim » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:15 pm

Not sure where that's from but it's not our ECU AFAIK? 5 positions? Modes 1 & 2 - no exhaust gas sensor input to the ECU? 55 isn't okay, it's 44

Our ECU has 2 modes - clockwise or anti-clockwise :-)


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Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by philhoward » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:37 pm

Given it mentions emissions, probably USA??


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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by old bean » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:04 pm

Not quite Jim, Craig sold me an ECU for a CA18ET and it operates as described above with the lights flashing together in unison once, twice etc up to five times, then it repeats. i scoured the net to find out what it was all about and found the info above.

You need to turn the diagnostic switch anticlockwise to lock the ECU into one of the modes and as I said, not all of it applies but you do need to select mode 3 or 5 to get your error codes on these versions of ECU, I know as I did this with the ECU myself and it worked.

There is a clear difference as I have a standard reliant / silvia factory issue ECU that behaves in the standard diag or non diag modes as you mention but the other one I have here is certainly different and the above method certainly applies to it. Both ECUs work fine too.

I think the info came from a Bluebird forum in the USA or Australia, I'll have to have a nose around and see, but the info on mode 3 and 5 works, although I'm sure I found mode 5 to give codes in the standard form one of LED at a time but just in real time.



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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by scimjim » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:19 pm

I don't see how an ECU that's looking for a lambda sensor (modes 1 & 2) or a speed sensor (mode 4) would work properly? how do you access those modes?

what markings does this ECU have?


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by old bean » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:44 pm

Jim, the only parts of the text that apply to this version of CA18ET ECU are those referring to the mode selection and those referring to mode 3 and mode 5, as I said not all of it applies, I just pasted it all to save typing it or cutting snippets out of it. Of course we don't have speed sensors etc.. :)

Modes 1, 2 and 4 you can ignore but to get the error codes to display on these ECUs you need to select the mode first. I think Ben Kenobe can confirm this (do a search but I think it was him) as I'm sure he had an ECU like this and encountered the same issue when trying to get the LEDs to display error codes.

edit: I'll get it out of the boot tomorrow and grab some numbers off it, I'm not making all this up you know :)



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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by Jim Russell » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:49 am

Hi All, Lots of great information on the ECU, which is very valuable for me and other people with similar problems in the future.

My ECU part numbers 96 etc is exactly the same as the photo sent by AJL. Thus this verifies that it is an original SS1 unit I think, so the diagnostics should be in line with the manual, therefore it may have some issues in that regard. AJL I would appreciate it if you could email me with your contact details and I'll give you a call to discuss the unit that you have.

Yesterday I spent more happy hours going over old ground from scratch just to verify I had not missed anything on the ignition system. I pulled the relays from the car and checked them all and all the contacts were OK. A plus to all this is that the fixing bolts will be much easier to get out in the future :). I also verified the voltages at the ECU connectors per the trouble shooting procedure in the workshop manual and everything checked out fine. The Electrical Circuit Diagrams on Phil's website are a tremendous help too. I finally got back to the Power Transistor and pulled it from the car. On testing it I found it had failed, and was open circuit. Whilst I am pretty sure that I checked it previously and it was OK I would not swear to it as I have "ignitionitus". I have done so many checks that I may have stuffed it in the process. Anyway another part to source, I'll go to my local Auto Electrician tomorrow to see if they can fix it. It appears to be a 6806 MOSFET. If any of you have any experience on fixing the power transistor I would appreciate your feedback.

I am really learning a lot about the SS1 that is for sure.



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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by scimjim » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:04 am

I have a feeling there's some info on the power transistor somewhere (used on several other cars)? Have a quick search.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Re: SS1 1800TI will not start

Post by Ben Kenobe » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:48 am

Nissan no longer available, been there got the T shirt, it is available outside the UK but I haven't found a UK source. The Nissan part number was 2202017F10, it is available via 'Standard Motor Products' which is basically Intermotor, they exist in the UK as SMPE. The part number is LX-878 but it is far from cheap - if you find one don't expect much change from £100.

Sorry for not really getting involved but am not in UK until mid June.


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