fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

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Pogle
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:43 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Pogle » Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:34 pm

Hello guys

I recently had my engine rebuilt and put it all back together and in the car only to realise that I had left out the drive plate spacer!! Luckily had not tried to start or run the engine so took it all out fitted the spacer and put it all back in again. Looking at it now things still do not look right so here is my question? Is it possible to fit a drive plate the wrong way around ? the crank has 6 bolts one of which is offset so the answer I am thinking is no it cannot be fitted facing the wrong way as the holes will not line up.

There is virtually no information or photos of the torque converter fitted to the plate, my converter had 3 feet which I believe sat in a recess on the plate and was bolted through from the front. Has anyone got photos of the converter fitted so I can check mine is correct, I didn`t have problems fitting and torquing up my drive plate it just doesn`t look right and I cannot remember how it looked before and have lost the photos I took of it

Any help much appreciated. This is doing my nut in

Many thanks in advance

Regards Ian.



willholderogri
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Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: chippenham

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by willholderogri » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:06 pm

What model and year


1962 mini, bedford CA , KR200. morris 1000, mini pickup.several escorts,ford grandad.ford cortina X2 ,astra, SE5A x 2 ,ford focus.

Pogle
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:43 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Pogle » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:21 pm

1977 SE6A C3 GEARBOX



Symmo
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Location: milton keynes

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Symmo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:27 pm

If I remember correctly the flex plate is fitted with the lugs (spacers ) towards the torque converter. usual way when removing and refitting was to undo the bolts through the flex plate and remove the transmission with the torque converter and refit the box with the torque converter fitted in the bell housing to save damaging the front gearbox seal.



Sarecen
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:17 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Sarecen » Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:10 am

Hi Pogle
is this what you are looking for?
IMG_0163.JPG
IMG_0163.JPG (314.44 KiB) Viewed 517 times
or
IMG_0293.JPG
IMG_0293.JPG (209.15 KiB) Viewed 500 times
Regards
Sarecen



gtcse8
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Location: Steeton, Yorkshire Dales

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by gtcse8 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:25 am

Just to clarify :lol: Dave`s second picture shows the TC oil drain plug :wink:


Mark Wilson. Garage sale everything must go. :cry:1 SE6b, 1 GTC Shell &1 SE6a shell & a Triumph Daytona. Also on YouTube :wink: lookup V8 Chevy https://youtu.be/lbpvDGAMY6g https://youtu.be/7xTrbr0ETSA https://youtu.be/K7HfYVd5Flo

Sarecen
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:17 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Sarecen » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:03 am

Opps,Mark is quite right :shock: try this one
IMG_0296.JPG
IMG_0296.JPG (229.37 KiB) Viewed 461 times
Regards

D
IMG_2483.JPG
IMG_2483.JPG (263.42 KiB) Viewed 444 times



User avatar
scimjim
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Posts: 40567
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by scimjim » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:44 am

The main reason for leaving the TC in the gearbox when fitting or removing, is to prevent cracking of the flex plate. You can see the strengthening pl spot welded on to try and beef it up.


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), 1400 1600 1800 Zetec ST170 powered SS1 (G97), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre, TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR).
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

Pogle
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:43 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Pogle » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:01 am

Thanks to those who responded.

As I thought it is not possible to put the drive plate on the wrong way as the offset bolt prevents that, I also marked the Torque converter feet so that was right. The thing that concerns me is the clearance between the 3 bolts that hold the torque converter to the drive plate and the counter weight on the front of it clearing a bolt that holds the rear engine plate 1mm clearance on between the bolt in the block and the bolt holding the converter see picture, I have put the spacer in for the drive plate but I am wondering if maybe I have put too thick a spring washer on the bolt holding the rear plate in - or whether there should be a bolt there at all?

Thanks for taking the time to respond - maybe it is just me I am having a job to turn the engine because it is new I will investigate further before trying to start the engine cannot afford another disaster.

Many thanks once again
Ian .
Attachments
flywheel 1.jpg
Looking from below see how close the torque converter bolt is to the black bolt head 1mm clearance very close. The black bolt is the last one on the engine rear plate maybe it is sticking out too far? In the photo it looks like it is toughing, it is not but it is only 1mm from each other. Everything else looks right
flywheel 1.jpg (173.65 KiB) Viewed 432 times



Sarecen
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:17 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Sarecen » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:50 am

Hi Pogle

I have just checked the clearance between the back plate mounting bolt and the TC fixing bolt on my C3 and the gap is in excess of three mm.

I inserted a 3mm allen key between them when aligned and was a loose fit (see photo, viewed through the starter aperture).
IMG_0298.JPG
IMG_0298.JPG (149.16 KiB) Viewed 415 times


I could not get a 4mm allen key in between them, so determined the gap to be 3.5 mm.

Is the spacer between the end of the crank and the flex plate?

Hope this helps.

Regards

D
Last edited by Sarecen on Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.



gtcse8
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Posts: 3121
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:11 am
Location: Steeton, Yorkshire Dales

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by gtcse8 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:55 am

Item 35, Spacer- driveplate.
This is shown BEHIND the flex plate and fits between it and the crank thereby giving around 4mm spacing.
Did you fit it the wrong side of the flexplate??.
As in Dave`s pic it is not visible as its behind the flexiplate.
C3 autobox.jpg
C3 autobox.jpg (138.46 KiB) Viewed 407 times
I can`t see the bolts to block which holds the part 29, Plate- cylinder block, so can`t tell if they have thin or thick spring washers to keep it all in place.
IIRC they are just std springs.


Mark Wilson. Garage sale everything must go. :cry:1 SE6b, 1 GTC Shell &1 SE6a shell & a Triumph Daytona. Also on YouTube :wink: lookup V8 Chevy https://youtu.be/lbpvDGAMY6g https://youtu.be/7xTrbr0ETSA https://youtu.be/K7HfYVd5Flo

Pogle
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:43 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Pogle » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:04 pm

Thanks for all the help and photos I took the engine and gearbox out specifically to fit the missing spacer - which by the way is 4mm thick -someone has screwed up ME....... so it is all coming out again today so I can check on what is going on yes I did fit it in front of the drive plate or not at all ...........................will report back when I know thanks once again :roll:



Pogle
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:43 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Pogle » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:44 pm

Update on my problem. I have taken out the engine and gearbox and split the two apart. I had fitted the missing spacer and I measured the distance from the backside of the starter ring to the rear engine plate in various places and it was 26 mm at all points. I then bolted on the torque converter just to see the bolt clearance it was about 4mm the drive plate and the converter turned smoothly and everything cleared everything else.

I then took the converter off the drive plate and noticed that the end of it was ever so slightly out of shape a tiny dint on one side. I slotted the converter back into the gearbox, wiggled it and it went in once, wiggled again in some more then stopped. I am wondering if the small dint is stopping the converter going all the way into the gearbox and engaging the two `flats` into the gearbox oil pump.

Having read on this forum the risk this poses to the oil pump and damage to it I am wondering now if I have damaged the pump if so how can I be sure?

On a correctly engaged converter how far back from the face of the bell housing are the mounting feet for the converter? Is the converter wobbly when pressed back into the gearbox? Finally does anyone know how I can make sure I have not damaged the gearbox oil pump whilst I have the whole lot apart?

A lot of questions I know but but I do not want to have to take this lot out again would rather wait and fix it once and for all. You guys been on these things for a while hopefully can put me straight.

Many thanks

Pogle
Attachments
20200820_134441.jpg
measured the drive plate to engine distance to rear of starter gear 26 mm at all points tested also all bolts now clear on the front of the plate by at least 3 mm so it must be when the converter is fitted with the gearbox
20200820_134441.jpg (146.7 KiB) Viewed 319 times
20200820_134422.jpg
centre of drive plate indicates the spacer is indeed in no signs if cracks or distortion
20200820_134422.jpg (207 KiB) Viewed 319 times



Sarecen
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:17 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Sarecen » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:28 pm

Hi Pogle

I have just measured from the back plate to the starter gear and concur with the distance (26mm)
IMG_0344.JPG
IMG_0344.JPG (219.29 KiB) Viewed 259 times
:D :D

Not sure how the fluid pump can be checked, some one on here may? :!:

Regards
D



Pogle
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:43 pm

fitting flex plate/drive plate and torque converter

Post by Pogle » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:33 am

Excellent many thanks I have been holding off refitting anything for confirmation of that. The torque converter faces are 10mm from the gearbox face which is what it says in the book which means the pump dive must be engaged so if tomorrow I offer up the gearbox and converter to the engine I should be able to do up the converter and still have 3mm + clearance on the converter bolts.

All a big learning curve. No one has said for sure whether bolting up the gearbox with the converter not properly engaged definitely trashes the pump, mine was bolted up but never turned either with the starter or by hand. I have looked around the seal and can see no damage behind it cracks or broken bits so I will go ahead and re-assemble and hope all is well.

This car is breaking me - I have restored 6 cars in much worse condition this one........well is being a git!! or am I just getting too old?

Once again Saracen thanks for taking the time to help me out it is much appreciated one more step to getting back on the road - if we meet up one day at a meet I will buy you a drink.

Regards Ian
Plymouth



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