GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Moderators: scimjim, Lukeyboy46, Roger Pennington, philhoward, erikscimitardemon

RonH
RSSOC Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:37 am
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 7 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by RonH » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:39 pm

The MOT on GTC 404 ran out yesterday. :(
I haven’t taken it for the test as I have the problems listed below - all basically electrics.
The wipers have stopped working as well as the headlights. The wiper unit was fully refurbished around 6 years ago.
Both seem to have stopped working immediately following the whole front of the car as well as the new fitted bonnet were resprayed 4 months ago in December. Tried various fuses all seem fine.
Can’t get the full beam to work on one side and main beam lights not illuminating at all.
Any ideas greatly appreciated. Can’t believe it this hot Easter weekend and can’t go anywhere in a convertible.
If I can get these problems fixed tonight I’m hopeful that I can get it MOT’D tomorrow. :D



User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 38044
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 995 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by scimjim » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:17 pm

Fuses can seem fine but not conduct - remove, clean (fuses and fuse box clips) and check for continuity as well as seeing if the end caps are tight. Check for power at the wiper and lights using the battery neutral. If that’s okay, suspect the earths.


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

RonH
RSSOC Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:37 am
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 7 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by RonH » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:32 pm

Cheers Jim
Will check all that you have mentioned.



jeff hoole
RSSOC Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:27 pm
Location: Turriff Aberdeenshire
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 9 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by jeff hoole » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:45 am

Check the relays up behind the glove box they control everything you have mentioned.


Jeff hoole

Present :- 2 x 5a 1 x 6a 2 x 6b a gtc & a 68 coupe
1983 380 sl r107. 1933 humber 16/60.

willholderogri
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1002
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: chippenham
Has thanked: 162 times
Been thanked: 29 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by willholderogri » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:18 am

I would start with the earth's on the headlights .put a temporary one in from the battery if this works .it may solve some of the other issues as well


1962 mini, bedford CA , KR200. morris 1000, mini pickup.several escorts,ford grandad.ford cortina X2 ,astra, SE5A x 2 ,ford focus.

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 38044
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 995 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by scimjim » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:22 am

jeff hoole wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:45 am
Check the relays up behind the glove box they control everything you have mentioned.
The ignition relay provides power to fuses that feed the electric windows, electric door mirrors, heater motors, front and rear wipers, so if they’ve all failed, suspect that relay.
As standard, the wiring diagram says that dipped beam (outer lights) aren’t relayed and the inner main beams aren’t relayed, only the outers - they are also paired from the fuse, so it must be a poor connection or earth if one is working and the other isn’t (assuming the bulb itself is good).


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 20113
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 155 times
Been thanked: 533 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by Roger Pennington » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:50 pm

scimjim wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:22 am
the inner main beams aren’t relayed, only the outers
Yes, assuming the wiring is as per the Se6a, the inner mains are unrelayed and the supply to them acts as the trigger current for the outer main beam relay, which is one of the 3 behind the glovebox.


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

RonH
RSSOC Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:37 am
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 7 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by RonH » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:22 pm

Today
Inner 5 3/4 inch mains not working. Outer 7 inch lights side light bulb fine. Outer 7 inch lights working. Flick to full beam via steering multi switch - only one 7 inch light lit. Found 3 relays behind glove box. Looks like they are piggy backed. See photo.
Attachments
BC1F50EF-1366-4361-AF67-9642107E9909.jpeg
BC1F50EF-1366-4361-AF67-9642107E9909.jpeg (41.17 KiB) Viewed 1331 times



gtcse8
RSSOC Member
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:11 am
Location: Steeton, Yorkshire Dales
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 135 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by gtcse8 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:28 pm

They been messed with Ron
Shouldn`t be piggybacked and the originals are Lucas "Barrel" type, the Ripca I have never heard of.

Have you checked and cleaned the fuses in the engine bay that are in the small black fuse box fastened to the slam panel ?


Mark Wilson. See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s,1 & 1/2 GTC`s, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

User avatar
Corky
RSSOC Member
Posts: 11231
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Macclesfield
Has thanked: 255 times
Been thanked: 213 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by Corky » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:59 pm

They could be the relays I installed when I restored the car. I replaced the barrel relays with like for like modern versions (not piggy backed). That was about 8 years ago though, so could’ve been messed with since.


Steve
Current:- SS1 Ti RG sprint car, Honda S2000, VW Touareg 3.0 V6
Prev:- Sabre Ti, 3xSS1 Ti, SS1 16v Turbo Racer, 5XGTC, 2XSE6B, 2XSE5A, 2XV6 Coupe, Sabre 6
Project Threads & YouTube

“It's not the winning, it's the taking apart that counts"

ScimmyMike
RSSOC Member
Posts: 5047
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 120 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by ScimmyMike » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:03 pm

I found similar issues when rebuilding my 6b was the fuses on the front panel to right hand side of bonnet, bad contacts, had me baffled for a while, take a look at those, as others have said might look okay but not making proper contact, clean contact and fuse up and check that the fuse wiring is okay, might look good but the soldered connection to the fuse wire sometimes becomes effectively a dry joint


SE4c rebuilding. SE5a similar it seems!
SAAB C900 2 door, Alfa Romeo GTV twinny
Scimitar SE4 SE4c SE5 SE6b Austin A35

High Peak Noggin Secretary & general dogsbody

www.high peak noggin

If things are going well with the rebuild you've missed a part out

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 38044
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 995 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by scimjim » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:04 pm

They’re not original relays - but that doesn’t matter.

Not sure what you mean by piggybacked? They share common brown and black wires as standard.


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 20113
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 155 times
Been thanked: 533 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by Roger Pennington » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:19 pm

RonH wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:22 pm
Today
Inner 5 3/4 inch mains not working. Outer 7 inch lights side light bulb fine. Outer 7 inch lights working. Flick to full beam via steering multi switch - only one 7 inch light lit. Found 3 relays behind glove box. Looks like they are piggy backed. See photo.
There should be three relays in that location - the "ignition" relay, the "main beam" relay, and the "aux lights" relay. As Mark says, they are normally round relays. What do you mean by "piggybacked"?


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

gtcse8
RSSOC Member
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:11 am
Location: Steeton, Yorkshire Dales
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 135 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by gtcse8 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:42 pm

Corky wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:59 pm
I replaced the barrel relays with like for like modern versions
Steve has answered that question


Mark Wilson. See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s,1 & 1/2 GTC`s, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

RonH
RSSOC Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:37 am
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 7 times

GTC 404 MOT electric advice needed

Post by RonH » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:02 am

I’ve carried out a basic check of the 4 fuses in the engine bay with a continuity tester (fuses taken out). One seemed a bit hit and miss so that was replaced. When I took the the glovebox out there are 3 relays as per picture and 3 inline fuses (possibly associated with radio/cd).
What I mean with piggy back relays is that I was expecting to see (to my mind) a “typical looking relay - a cube shaped block”. But all three relays look deeper- like two cubes stuck together. I didn’t get to investigate further as the sun was that bright I couldn’t see a thing. Also they are really well fastened down with nylon ties and set well back in the glove box. My guess is that they are Steve’s (original - modern relays so these replaced the original barrel relays). Unfortunately I can’t personally see me getting at or checking out these relays. No idea as yet why the wiper motor has stopped working.
On the positive side the smiths clock started to tick for the first time in 2 years.



Post Reply

Return to “Se6/6a/6b/GTC”