Sabre 1400 just added

If you have a long-term project and would like to share/document progress, this is for you.

Moderators: scimjim, erikscimitardemon, Lukeyboy46, Roger Pennington, philhoward

User avatar
reliant-reviver
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4931
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:05 pm
Location: Beighton, Sheffield
Has thanked: 91 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Sabre 1400 just added

Post by reliant-reviver » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:43 pm

Measurements seems to agree with the one I have here. NO identifying marks or numbers on it other than "Magnetti Marelli" on the solenoid head casting.

Can't get pictures to upload. Few more measurements, 29mm across the drive gear, 10 teeth. 88.8mm diameter across "shoulder" of mounting face.

Drive gear looks the same as Jims and to my eye appears to be "longer" than the one you have Mike and hence a fuller engagement.

Technically spare and believed GWO but i can't substantiate that!


Philip Andrew.
'74 Robin Super Saloon, '84 SS1 1300, '86 SS1 1800ti, '87 SS1 1300
Previous: I lost count around fifty.

Peter S
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Dorrrset
Been thanked: 8 times

Sabre 1400 just added

Post by Peter S » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:01 pm

I think I started the linked thread but as no longer a member unable to view, but looking at my photos the wear marks are definitely in the middle of the teeth looks the same as yours so forks not operating correctly?
The cog on mine looks shorter than Jim's. No markings except Magnetti Marelli. The end of the thread somebody says they got one for a Sierra 1800 & fitted OK.
Another thought is the spacer fitted correctly? If not located properly would move starter away from flywheel


Peter S
Currently no Reliant but you never know!

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 37942
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 988 times

Sabre 1400 just added

Post by scimjim » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:41 pm

I’ve merged the threads into this section Peter. It seems that there are several minor differences between the starters under the same part number?


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 25156
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 626 times
Contact:

Sabre 1400 just added

Post by philhoward » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:51 pm

I can only assume that the difference is down to the manufacturer and exactly when - not exactly a secret that an OE spec one supplied direct to the production line and ones available aftermarket from the same supplier (be it Lucas, Bosch, MM, Valeo, Denso - the list is long, but Ford didn’t make starter motors themselves, just had them stamped as such) will be different as commoning up of components causes slight differences.

It does confirm my thoughts that the K series starter motor would be the same as a CVH/DOHC Sierra (the Pinto-powered ones being used on the early CVH SS1s - I say this as I believe the later spec cars have the bolts from the bellhousing side?).

Having had the two differing units side by side, the gear does end up further out which in the case of a Ford engine ties up with the ring gear being either at the block edge of the flywheel or the gearbox edge.


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 20051
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 149 times
Been thanked: 527 times

Sabre 1400 just added

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:04 am

philhoward wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:51 pm
It does confirm my thoughts that the K series starter motor would be the same as a CVH/DOHC Sierra (the Pinto-powered ones being used on the early CVH SS1s - I say this as I believe the later spec cars have the bolts from the bellhousing side?).
I can't comment on the K-series one, but for info my late-spec 1600 cvh has the bolts which go through from the bellhousing side, into threaded holes is the starter, and the starter is an LRS344.


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

Supersub
RSSOC Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Mablethorpe, Lincs
Been thanked: 2 times

Sabre 1400 just added

Post by Supersub » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:43 pm

Afternoon all

Let me start by thanking everyone once again for all the comments, advice and help in assisting me to sort out the problems not only with this car but all the Scims I have owned. Having such a backup of knowledge and support available certainly eases the concerns if not the frustrations when owning these cars.

So where are we with the starter. Well car now back on the road and after numerous tests it’s working fine. It seems that despite all mine and other’s doubts that this starter was not the correct one subsequent investigations have proved that it is. As to why it appears that others have a different size of starter fitted to their version of the car I have no idea. Maybe there was a change during production. All I know is that this one does the job. So how did we finally resolve this issue.

Having gone back to Oxby's on Wednesday to recheck measurements and how many teeth on the drive gear etc I found Dave Oxby (Leighs dad) checking various measurements on his pad against the starter. Now in his late seventies he went into the business at 15 when he left school. Worked for a number of manufacturers main dealers before setting up his own workshop in the early seventies. During his life was involved in many areas of motorsport. These included competing with a mini in rallying, autotests, beach racing and was the autocross national champion in 1966. A fascinating character who you could listen to for hours. Now semi retired he’s around the garage most days to, in his own words, keep Leigh “on his toes and make sure he isn’t slacking”.

Sorry I digressed. Back to the starter. His investigations and measurements confirmed that in his opinion this was the right one and taking into account that until recently it had worked fine he agreed with what Peter had said. That the problem was related to the drive gear. Although he didn’t dispute that the gear appeared not to be engaging fully he felt that more of the gear was engaging with the flywheel than the 2-3mm John Skuse had indicated but not every time and sometimes not at first engagement. Having tested and retested the throw of the gear numerous times he concluded that the problem was simply related to poor engagement of the gears when you turned the key. Hence the intermittent screeching when it failed to engage correctly. So what was the solution. He suggested that before we started looking into obtaining another starter or carrying out any other drastic measures he would simply grind the end of the teeth on the drive gear to give a greater length of taper. His logic was that this would enable a better clearance when the teeth first engaged with the flywheel and hence enable it to locate easier. Simple really. And as I said earlier it worked. Fingers crossed it will continue to do so going forward.

As to the starter itself it has no markings on it so unable to help others in identifying make, model etc.

Thanks once again. What’s next I wonder.

Mike


Mike Storey
1996 1.4 K Series Sabre
1996 Nissan QX 3.0ltr SEL
1995 Quantum 1.9ltr 2+2
2004 Mondeo MKIII 130TDCi Estate
Previous: -1990 SST 1800Ti, 1993 Sabre 1400, 1992 Sabre 1400 (based on 1991 SST), 1972 se5a gte, 1968 SE4b Coupe

Post Reply

Return to “Project Progress”