551 A race oddity

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:07 pm

I ordered some bearings for my gearbox, which arrived in the week. Next I stripped the S13 gearbox (S12 one already stripped).The S12 is the Nissan Silvia, the S13 is the Nissan SX200 with the pop-up lights.
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So now I had a big pile of gearbox bits. I did take lots of photos as I stripped the 1st one as well as marking up bits & bagged them all, but the Nissan workshop manual is also very good.

Here's the cast iron sandwich plate, S12 on the left, S13 on the right. They'd closed up some of the holes already.
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I'm using the S13 plate and after a very thorough de-greasing, washing & cleaning off again with brake cleaner, some of the holes got blocked up to replicate the later 14a gearbox; which also uses seals on the bearings, shown below with the old ones. The holes are filled with JD weld, there's little chance of it coming out, as it's a larger area either side of the hole, dovetailing it in place.
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I'm using the shorter S12 main shaft, so the gearbox ends up the same overall package, here is the difference between the two
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All the bits on the bench in the photo above were as removed, everything that was re-used was thoroughly cleaned before fitting. Having stripped both gearboxes, it was clear there are more changes than I'd already noted.The S13 2nd & 3rd have 2-piece syncro-mesh rings. The S13 4th gear syncromesh is larger, with a greater surface area than the S12. As such, I used all the gears, which have even less wear than the S12 box, and syncro's and selectors from the S13 gearbox. On with assembly:
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After testing it all, I've temporarily fitted the bellhousing
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Then fitted the S13 long tail shaft, so I could test the gear selection, make some measurements & trial the B&M shifter
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That came back off & on with the short S12 tail shaft, just to keep it all clean inside for now.
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It's not quite finished, I need to modify the rear selector rod to work with the short tail housing & the B&M shifter (the S12 selector rod is different). This is why I wanted to trial it all in un-modified form first, just to check the main gearbox assembly was ok.

I'm going to make a little trap-door for the lower oil hole in the sandwich plate, this was done by Nissan on the later S14a box, but the Nissan part won't fit the S13 plate, then it needs the input & output seals changing & the box all sealed up with silicone (as per Nissan) at the sandwich plate. Oh & the B&M shifter having more robust fixings for the lever.

This is all a bit of an experiment, but apart from time, it's only cost me the price of some bearings & 2 seals.
Last edited by BigBobPilot on Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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CNHSS1
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551 A race oddity

Post by CNHSS1 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:27 pm

Now you are the gearbox eggspurt, i have 6 for you to lovingly restore to health :mrgreen:

Great work, never been brave enough to strip a box that far 8)


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
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stevecrosby63
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551 A race oddity

Post by stevecrosby63 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:19 am

excellent, really interesting to read...thank you


i'm making this up as i go along :shock:

Benc
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551 A race oddity

Post by Benc » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:44 am

stevecrosby63 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:19 am
excellent, really interesting to read...thank you
I'll second that brilliant post Ben

Cheers for taking time to detail :goodpost:



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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:01 pm

It's not detailed, if anyone wants a more detailed strip & re-build based on the S14 box see here:

https://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php ... nd-rebuild

But as I mentioned, the Nissan manual is very good, here (S13):

https://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php ... nformation

or the S12 one here:

https://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php ... ice-Manual

You'd struggle to do this without a press & a selection of bearing pullers


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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Nick
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551 A race oddity

Post by Nick » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:49 pm

Nice one Ben, a bit more sophisticated than the BMC and Ford boxes I was used to!


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MikeyBikey
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551 A race oddity

Post by MikeyBikey » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:03 pm

That’s very clever stuff Ben, well impressed. :clap:


Is we sideways yet...

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:22 pm

Well, we'll see...

I've plagiarized the drift boys & Craig TBF (and used the manual); but tried to look at what's going on too. Maybe there's something there for you too Mikey. You drive all the time like your drifting (have you tried it). Maybe you're getting oil starvation at the front of the gearboxes you've been breaking?


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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philhoward
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551 A race oddity

Post by philhoward » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:01 pm

I reckon Craig and Mikey are cut from the same cloth...


The shroud they keep placing over yet another dead gearbox...


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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:03 pm

Very good Phil, very good.


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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551 A race oddity

Post by philhoward » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:05 pm

I thought it quite good for a Monday :mrgreen:


Phil Howard
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Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

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551 A race oddity

Post by CNHSS1 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:09 pm

Bbbrrrrruuummm ttiissch :drum:


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
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551 A race oddity

Post by philhoward » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:12 pm

I’m here all week - try the veal :mrgreen:


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
SS1 Racer
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:20 pm

My gearbox will probably break anyway, so although I'm chuckling now, who knows...


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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CNHSS1
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551 A race oddity

Post by CNHSS1 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:21 pm

Mike

Phil(istine) is only jealous of our surperior track skills :mrgreen: and the ability to turn perfectly good gearboxes into containers of shrapnel... :lol:


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
Image

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