551 A race oddity

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Sun May 31, 2020 9:36 am

The plan for now is to build one engine, mostly with parts from the spare. It hadn't done many miles after it was rebuilt with CP forged pistons, which is evident.

The original engine would need new pistons & head as a minimum, so it is potentially there as the basis for another build.


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:45 pm

Just to keep up with Mr Hughes, pics of inlet manifold with engineering blue applied for marking & matching together.
20200606_115946.jpg
20200606_115946.jpg (276.4 KiB) Viewed 1225 times
There now done, along with some tickling on the throttle body.


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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CNHSS1
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551 A race oddity

Post by CNHSS1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:28 pm

Ben uses 'engineering blue', Hughesie uses marker pen :lol:


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
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b.c.flat hat
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551 A race oddity

Post by b.c.flat hat » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:14 pm

CNHSS1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:28 pm
Ben uses 'engineering blue', Hughesie uses marker pen :lol:
That's only cos Claire wouldn't lend him her lipstick😎😁



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CNHSS1
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551 A race oddity

Post by CNHSS1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:37 pm

Lend it me or Ben? :lol:


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:40 pm

I had to divert to resolving an issue with my compressor. It started leaking air out the unloader valve when it switched off. After a bit of googling & tracing, it turned out to be some debris holding open the check valve.

With that done, there was a little bit of cleaning up to do on the inlet & exhaust ports on the cylinder head to get the ports matched. Then more cleaning bits.


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:12 pm

The top of the inlet manifold always looks grubby, so while it was in bits for port matching, I've cleaned it all up & painted the top plenum section. It's still hot the masking on the bottom half.
20200607_192357.jpg
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Then the gearbox fell apart
20200607_205926.jpg
20200607_205926.jpg (240.13 KiB) Viewed 1132 times
Getting the first bearing off took an age, I had to modify my bearing puller legs to get it to fit. This was the time consuming bit.

This is something that Mr Hughes never sees, a 5th & reverse selector fork in one piece. I'm not going to rib him though, as I'm buying an uprated selector from him. It's from an American spec. Nissan truck I think?
20200607_171342.jpg
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The main reason for stripping the box was to swap the afore mentioned selector, but also swap the cast piece that the gear lever operates, for the later type. This should allow me to fit the B&M quick shifter.

However, while it was split open, I thought I'd look at the syncro rings, 1st is a bit worn, but the others are ok. Also check the bearings. The input shaft & output shaft bearings have a bit of play. After chatting with Craig & reading up on the boxes a bit the bearings in the centre section were changed on later boxes to ones with a cover seal, to stop the oil running through them to the back of the box. There are also a couple of holes in the centre section to block up, again to stop the oil running to the back & starving the front section where 1st, 2and 3rd & 4th gears live. So I'm going to swap in the later bearings & make the mods on the centre plate.

In general, it's all in good shape, which is great for what I believe is the original gearbox, which also did a season of hill climbing & a season or 2 of racing in the hands of Raz. The edges of the reverse idler gear are a bit worn, but it won't stop it working.

Time to order some bit & some expensive Redline Shockproof gear oil.


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

efi_sprintgte
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551 A race oddity

Post by efi_sprintgte » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:18 pm

I thought super duper SS1s had “get out and push reverse” technology... :lol:

I’d be interested in some feedback about the Redline, read good reports but I’ve never been able to justify the price to myself.


JC

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:22 pm

efi_sprintgte wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:18 pm
I thought super duper SS1s had “get out and push reverse” technology... :lol:
Mr Hughes cars do!


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:59 pm

Well, plan-A of a quick re-fresh on the engine was quickly dashed after strip down. Now plan-A on the gearbox of a quick check-over and sorting the 5th/reverse selector & quick shift has also been dashed. I will pre-empt any questions by saying there is a gearbox conversion planned, for when I go full fat with the engine, but for now, the idea was to make the best of the Nissan gearbox.

Mr Hughes (CNHSS1), very kindly posted me his precious brand new uprated 5th/reverse selector fork, so I could crack on with my gearbox re-fresh. However, it was very quickly apparent that it was the wrong fork. The S12 (Reliant) gearbox has a non-syncro reverse. The new fork, it turns out is for the later S14, which has a syncro reverse, it doesn’t fit the S12 crash reverse… I have lots of photos of the comparison, but they are pretty pointless, so no photos of that.

After a lot of discussion with the Dark Destroyer of Nissan Gearboxes, Mr Hughes himself, where he could access his library of broken gearboxes, it became clear; Craig has never broken an S13 gearbox, they have a weird & elaborate 5th/reverse selector mechanism. Ergo, the S13 box must be the strongest gearbox because of the special selector mechanism. The trouble is, he’s not broken one, because he hasn’t actually fitted one to either Batmobile or Light Sabre...

I happen to have a spare S13 gearbox that I got free when I bought my spare CA18DET engine, so I thought I’d split it open to see if it also had the weird selector... it does. The selector is indeed odd & looks like it was stupendously expensive to manufacture. It appears to be designed to take any accidental/incidental loading off the 5th/reverse selector fork & possibly stabilize the rear end of the selector rods. The 3rd/4th selector fork is also cast iron, rather than a die-cast aluminium part, the 1st/2nd fork is also beefed up over the S12 box. Nissan clearly had selector fork issues. The S14 selectors changed again with an introduction of syncro on reverse, not that it stopped Mr Hughes breaking them (other than the S13 box of course).

It's kind of difficult to get a photo of the whole oddness of the S13 selector, but here's one courtesy of Craig, S13 on the LH, S14 on the RH.
IMG-20200609-WA0029[1].jpg
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The above is showing the rear of the box, there's a centre plate, 1st to 4th are in front of the centre plate, reverse & 5th are behind the centre plate.

S13 top, S14 bottom
IMG-20200609-WA0030[1].jpg
IMG-20200609-WA0030[1].jpg (156.43 KiB) Viewed 1030 times


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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551 A race oddity

Post by philhoward » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:28 am

So we still don’t know if S13 gearboxes are Craig-proof..


Phil Howard
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551 A race oddity

Post by CNHSS1 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:00 am

I have an s13 unbroken Phil, its in bits as the reverse gear is a little worn by a PO. Plan is to get gear replaced and will be run in Sabre as next interim box before a conversion to T5 or BMW or similar.

S13 box was always the next planned box to try due to differing design, Ben has done the job right and used engineering nouse to check it out, i was just gonna sling it in and see if i could add it to my list of 'kills' :lol: whatsbthe worstbthat could happen...

Hopefully the s13 selector will prove or otherwise, its a selector issue, be nice to see if i can kill a box in future with just sheer grunt only... :twisted:

And yes, i do break gearboxes a lot, but then ive run more power and traction than others, so its not a huge surprise :wink:


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
Image

efi_sprintgte
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551 A race oddity

Post by efi_sprintgte » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:06 am

S13s with SR20s are drifted with 400bhp and 245 tyres so it’s a nod in the right direction.


JC

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:07 am

The larger 5th gear on the S14 box is clearly visible in the photos above. There S1
4 box has different ratios on all gears.

I think my plan is to build up the S13 internals, with S14a sealed centre bearings, but with the shorter S12 main shaft & tail housing, so I don't have to shorten the prop shaft or move the gear lever hole in the tunnel, but I'll see how feasible that is, there is definitely 1 small hurdle to resolve.


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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BigBobPilot
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551 A race oddity

Post by BigBobPilot » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:18 pm

I've gone for Nissan racing silver for the engine block this time, to aid seeing any fluid leaks.
20200613_203941.jpg
20200613_203941.jpg (232.4 KiB) Viewed 912 times
Nissan racing silver is also known as Massey Fergusson tractor engine silver grey. It's amazing what you find when you start searching. Paragon paints on ebay have a lot of original manufacturer engine colours, not Nissan though.


Ben

SS1 CA18DET race car
Latest owner of V6 coupe SRE 353G
SSSC Champion 2009, driving "Big Bob"
CSCC "Swinging 60s" race series winner in 2011, 2014 & 2015 (Group 2) sharing a Marcos with Iain Daniels

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