Way too low

Moderators: scimjim, erikscimitardemon, Lukeyboy46, Roger Pennington, philhoward

User avatar
Dennis Nicholas
RSSOC Member
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Way too low

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:22 pm

Ken
The first thing to do is turn the lower wishbones up the right way so that the eyes are sticking downwards. Peter did say "1' from memory....so may be more.
It is the length and rate of spring that will determine the height of the car on any particular damper.
Your damper appears to have non adjustable spring seats at the bottom? The spring is either far too short for that damper or very weak.....since new last year they must be far too short. (i.e. though the spring is touching top and bottom seats it is only very slightly compressed in doing so and when the weight of the car goes on it it compresses MUCH more and car goes lower.
Whilst it is true that the damper does not determine ride height, the wrong length damper will be a factor when combined with the correct length/rate of spring. For example if the damper has a longer length from bottom spring seat to fixing bolt then for the same overall length spring and damper the car will ride higher (it is the same effect as screwing up the spring seat on an adjustable. Your damper eye looks very close to the bottom spring seat.
rkclodhopers dimensions will give you a good idea what to expect........
Perhaps you could take dampers off and try to find what make they are and let us know.

Dennis


Dennis Nicholas(RSSOC)
1980 GTC Trafalgar Blue, 2010 basic Skoda Yeti (petrol), Austin 7s, Rileys.

User avatar
1969SE5
Posts: 598
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:36 pm
Location: Kidderminster, Worcestershire
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Way too low

Post by 1969SE5 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:18 pm

how did it sit before the new springs ?


“Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary… that’s what gets you.”

Ken Davies
RSSOC Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:43 pm
Location: Basingstoke
Has thanked: 23 times

Way too low

Post by Ken Davies » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:09 am

Hi all, first a correction: your comments re the springs prompted me to remember it was the rears I replaced so those are of unknown age. As I've only just put the rear axle back in you'd think I knew that.
Springs and corrected wishbones look to be the answer, thank you everyone and esp Richard for crawling under his for me. I have SE5 and SE6 friends close by but not SE5a so a trip down the A339 for comparison and to meet another owner sounds good to me.
A weekend at the in-laws denies me the pleasure of playing this weekend but soon...
Cheers :D



User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 37865
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 983 times

Way too low

Post by scimjim » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:35 am

Richard (and many others) are here at Curborough this weekend :D

Weather report is now much better and the sun is out this morning :D


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

Ken Davies
RSSOC Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:43 pm
Location: Basingstoke
Has thanked: 23 times

Way too low

Post by Ken Davies » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:46 am

Have a great weekend!


1975 SE5a JTF843P, 1966 AH Sprite mkIII in progress

Ken Davies
RSSOC Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:43 pm
Location: Basingstoke
Has thanked: 23 times

Way too low

Post by Ken Davies » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:28 pm

Hi Everyone,

I hope you had a damn good weekend at Curborough :)

I've had a chance to get underneath and compare my car with the measurements Richard took;
Top mount bolt centre to top face of spring 55mm. mine is 40mm
Top face of spring to bottom face of spring 230mm. mine is 218mm
Bottom face of spring to lower mount bolt centre 70mm. mine is also 70mm
Total coil-over unit top bolt centre to lower bolt centre 355mm. mine is 328mm

I have also checked the paperwork from the previous owner and I have a receipt for Gaz dampers (no springs) in 2016, I can make out 'Gaz' on the adjuster knob so assume they are on the car, if so it has SE6a dampers on the back end but the fronts are correct.
Richard's spring measurement and this photo suggest my springs are knackered, I don't suppose the spring should have that curve in it!
All of which leads me to think that correcting the wishbones and replacing the springs could lift her by 2.5" to 3" in the front and make me a lot happier going over bumps. Thank you everyone for your help.
Attachments
Spring.jpg
Spring.jpg (85 KiB) Viewed 395 times


1975 SE5a JTF843P, 1966 AH Sprite mkIII in progress

User avatar
Gillsfan
Posts: 3073
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:58 am
Location: Somerton, Somerset.
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Way too low

Post by Gillsfan » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:58 pm

Now I'm no expert and am standing by to be shot down but...

Is it not more likely that the dampers are wrong. The spring looks over compressed to me, which is causing the curve.


Steve

What if the Hokey Cokey is what its all about

1969 SE 5 Manual O/D Rat Rod
RSSOC Jaffa cakes in a minute champion

Ken Davies
RSSOC Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:43 pm
Location: Basingstoke
Has thanked: 23 times

Way too low

Post by Ken Davies » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:10 pm

I'm assuming the damper is correct, I have no reason to believe the previous owner bought the correct ones (as per Gaz's website) then did not fit them. I agree the spring looks over compressed but as the compressed spring length is 12mm shorter than a known good one I think it is because the spring is weak. I have a lot of paperwork going back to within a year of the car's manufacture and nowhere does it list a new set of springs.

I am also happy to be shot down in the interest in getting it right first time!


1975 SE5a JTF843P, 1966 AH Sprite mkIII in progress

User avatar
Gillsfan
Posts: 3073
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:58 am
Location: Somerton, Somerset.
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Way too low

Post by Gillsfan » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:23 pm

Would jacking it and measuring the unloaded length add anything to the discussion. Mine is on axel stands and I could measure the unloaded length this afternoon.


Steve

What if the Hokey Cokey is what its all about

1969 SE 5 Manual O/D Rat Rod
RSSOC Jaffa cakes in a minute champion

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 20034
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 147 times
Been thanked: 527 times

Way too low

Post by Roger Pennington » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:50 pm

Ken Davies wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:51 pm
Hi Phil, tyres are good fat original spec, must be a bad angle for the photo.
Ken Davies wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:43 am
Thanks for your replies so far. Tyres are 185/70/14,
Hi Ken, only just catching-up on this after a great Curboraough weekend, and reading through the thread I don't think anyone has picked-up on that - 185/70 aren't "fat original" they are lower profile; originals were 185/80. This means that your tyres have a smaller diameter (614 vs 651 originally, i.e. about 19mm radius, approx 3/4 inch). So your tyres will be making it about 3/4 inch lower, not the major part of the problem perhaps, but certainly a contributing factor.


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

Ken Davies
RSSOC Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:43 pm
Location: Basingstoke
Has thanked: 23 times

Way too low

Post by Ken Davies » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:51 pm

Rereading Dennis' post above I'm not sure. To me it would be logical that all "correct" dampers should be the same length, fixing bolt to fixing bolt, unloaded. But I think that's wrong!


1975 SE5a JTF843P, 1966 AH Sprite mkIII in progress

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 25117
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 620 times
Contact:

Way too low

Post by philhoward » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:32 pm

I’m 95% sure all GTE dampers (Reliant ones anyway) are the same length..or should be anyway.

Fronts and rears are different lengths.


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

User avatar
Gillsfan
Posts: 3073
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:58 am
Location: Somerton, Somerset.
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Way too low

Post by Gillsfan » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:11 pm

I measured my damper unloaded (car is up on axel stands) and middle of the top bolt to middle of the bottom bolt is 390mm. I was going to measure it off the car as well but the trunnion and its bolt have become one. If I managed to part them I'll let you know.

Not sure if it helps but I'm taking the front suspension off anyway.


Steve

What if the Hokey Cokey is what its all about

1969 SE 5 Manual O/D Rat Rod
RSSOC Jaffa cakes in a minute champion

User avatar
1969SE5
Posts: 598
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:36 pm
Location: Kidderminster, Worcestershire
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Way too low

Post by 1969SE5 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:48 pm

gotta be the shocks, looking at the spring tension


“Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary… that’s what gets you.”

User avatar
Dennis Nicholas
RSSOC Member
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Way too low

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:20 pm

Gillsfan wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:58 pm
Now I'm no expert and am standing by to be shot down but...

Is it not more likely that the dampers are wrong. The spring looks over compressed to me, which is causing the curve.
CURVED SPRING.....this is caused by the spring being more compressed on the concave side. 2 posibilities for that:-
1. The spring faces top and bottom are not exactly ground parallel;
2. the spring seats on the dampers are not parallel.
You can prove this by inserting a leaver between the coils at the bottom on the bowed out side and levering the coils apart (efectively puting more tension on that side....you will see the spring straighten out. I would favour the problem being the spring faces not being ground parallel as the problem. Just proved my slight bowing by inserting big screwdriver and twisting it and spring straightened out.

Dennis


Dennis Nicholas(RSSOC)
1980 GTC Trafalgar Blue, 2010 basic Skoda Yeti (petrol), Austin 7s, Rileys.

Post Reply

Return to “Se5/5a”