London T-Charge

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Post by scimjim » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:10 am

Absolutely - huge income, reduction in traffic and the associated reduction in harmful emissions - what’s not to like :D

Unfortunately, that income will soon form part of the cities annual budget and when the vast majority switch to electric (or hydrogen, or whatever we end up with), that income will disappear and they will have to find it elsewhere or cut services somewhere.


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Post by Loxford » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:51 pm

I'm not convinced that replacing every vehicle on the world's roads with electric power is really a solution.
I believe electric vehicles use a large amount of power to charge their unenvironmental batteries.

You know how the story goes about the nation watching the world cup. During half time, there was supposed to be a massive drain on the grid as everyone put on their kettle?
Never mind two minutes boiling a kettle, imagine everyone, that's millions of vehicles, plugged into the mains every day.

I'm not saying fossil fuels are better but the question is, where do we get all that extra electric power from that at the moment is not required? We still haven't solved the pollution and energy crisis.
It just looks good on paper.....at the moment while electric cars are the minority.

I don't think we've thought this through properly.



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Post by scimjim » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:40 pm

This thread was the big discussion over fossil/hybrid/electric/hydrogen/etc (despite starting as VED by DD) - I keep it in mind because I’ll be waiting for my 1p winnings from Chris (drcdb15) if, in 2 years time, 50% of the cars on the road aren’t electric :D


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Post by Rattling » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:45 am

Yet another burden on the motorist,I'm sure the retailers will be delighted especially when it gets rolled out over the other cities in the country :w


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Post by Rev Light » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:13 pm

All town centres will become wastelands, what with restricted access, high business rates and the internet. Only coffee shops for hipsters and abandoned shop doorways for the beggars.

Out of town 'Malls' full of 'designer' shops selling tat at prices nobody can afford.

Its been over a month since I have been into town......And getting on 9 months since I was dragged, kicking and screaming, to the local Mall........


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Post by ScimmyMike » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:03 pm

It seems to myself that as people are more mobile these days that they feel they are able to have a job which is 50 or more miles commute and expect to be able to use their own vehicle to get there, if cities are to implement these zones then it's only fair in my book that they also provide a park and ride scheme to accompany it to enable office workers commuting by car to do so and park and use public transport through the affected area, if it was all about air pollution and not revenue raising :w it'd be happening right now, a clear choice needs to be available.
Here in Manchester area all public transport routes are geared to going into the town centres only, not from one to another so my 10 mile commute would take at best 90 minutes and 3 changes.
LA's need to thing inside the box as well as outside it and whilst at it deal with the school run which I suspect generates a mass of pollution by those on it and those held up by it, my normal commute 40 - 50 minutes on a good day, schools off 20 to 30 minutes, that's some time sat in traffic between the 2


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Post by cookieboy » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:19 pm

My 2005 citroen c2 van is not compliant with the new ulez rules and Mr Khan wants me to get a newer vehicle .I wonder if they will bring in a scrappage scheme for London van dealers
He was on the radio today telling everyone to get a bus .It's a case of hammer the van man again :oops:


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Post by Rattling » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:09 pm

ScimmyMike wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:03 pm
It seems to myself that as people are more mobile these days that they feel they are able to have a job which is 50 or more miles commute and expect to be able to use their own vehicle to get there, if cities are to implement these zones then it's only fair in my book that they also provide a park and ride scheme to accompany it to enable office workers commuting by car to do so and park and use public transport through the affected area, if it was all about air pollution and not revenue raising :w it'd be happening right now, a clear choice needs to be available.
Here in Manchester area all public transport routes are geared to going into the town centres only, not from one to another so my 10 mile commute would take at best 90 minutes and 3 changes.
LA's need to thing inside the box as well as outside it and whilst at it deal with the school run which I suspect generates a mass of pollution by those on it and those held up by it, my normal commute 40 - 50 minutes on a good day, schools off 20 to 30 minutes, that's some time sat in traffic between the 2
Agreed that there should be alternatives in place before these plans are introduced ! Slowing traffic down to a crawl through traffic calming and very low speed limits creates jams and more pollution,more thought should be given to traffic flow too .


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Post by old bean » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:48 am

Kahn n co would have to PAY ME to drive into London, its an overpopulated infested dump of a city. Good luck to anyone that wants to drive into the charging zones of their free will. I used to work all around central london and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, let alone pay to do so.

If you live there, get out, if you work there, stick it or leave.. I did and it was the best move I ever made! Kiss my T-charge. :)



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Post by AJL Electronics » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:26 am

Ian Lock wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:59 am


My GTE se6a 1981 passed it's MOT last month with figures of CO 0.08% ( max is 4.5% ) & HC 275 ppm ( max is 1200ppm ) so does that mean I will be banned from all cities then ?
Then your engine is set up wrong, sorry! You should set no lower than about 2% CO or you will be far too weak potentially leading to engine damage. That's why the limit is 4.5%. The only time low figures are acceptable is when it is running LPG.


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Post by Alan SS1 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:55 pm

AJL Electronics wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:26 am
Ian Lock wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:59 am


My GTE se6a 1981 passed it's MOT last month with figures of CO 0.08% ( max is 4.5% ) & HC 275 ppm ( max is 1200ppm ) so does that mean I will be banned from all cities then ?


Then your engine is set up wrong, sorry! You should set no lower than about 2% CO or you will be far too weak potentially leading to engine damage. That's why the limit is 4.5%. The only time low figures are acceptable is when it is running LPG.
but what it does show is that a properly set up OLD car CAN get to pretty clean emissions . . .. .
but as it is on an 'old tax' band no amount of common sense will prevail. ie pre Euro 4 or whatever

as for the comments about 'give me an option to use a bus' , well up here they are looking at charging us to park the car at work, I work only eight miles away but to get here would need two or three buses and take around 90minutes (assuming I actually caught the connections :-( )

even the bus that used to go across the town (not via centre) dropped from once per fifteen minutes to once per twenty minutes to once per hour before they canned it due to lack of uptake,
is it funny that a bus that goes once per hour not been used often, as it was faster to take the bus into town and then then another one back out again , it only takes forty minutes . . . .


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Post by scimjim » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:20 pm

Euro emission standards are measured in g/km (and aren’t just CO & HC) - I don’t know how to equate % or ppm to g/km?

The mk2 Sabre is Euro 1 compliant.


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Post by philhoward » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:34 am

Alan SS1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:55 pm
I don’t know how to equate % or ppm to g/km?
That’s because they’re not like for like - one is a relative value and the other an absolute value.

A catalytic converter can reduce %CO and ppm values but won’t change the g/km value. Both a Toyota Prius and Bentley Continental GT will have the same CO and ppm values (as well as NOx etc) but their g/km figures will be wildly different as that is closely related to mpg.



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Post by Alan SS1 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:07 am

philhoward wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:34 am
Alan SS1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:55 pm
I don’t know how to equate % or ppm to g/km?
That’s because they’re not like for like - one is a relative value and the other an absolute value.

A catalytic converter can reduce %CO and ppm values but won’t change the g/km value. Both a Toyota Prius and Bentley Continental GT will have the same CO and ppm values (as well as NOx etc) but their g/km figures will be wildly different as that is closely related to mpg.
Phil nae sure what happened there, Jim was unsure, I'm sure I could work it out :D
as you say it is simple stoiciometric equation, fuel in per mile gives xx g CO2 out
and was thinking of doing said calculation at som epoint today, if anybody is REALLY interested? :wink:


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Post by philhoward » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:17 am

That’s what happens when you’re trying to use a shortcut off your phone - and it doesn’t work :lol:


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