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Post by Nick » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:18 pm

I have no issue with electric vehicles, and may well have one in a few years. But we cannot ignore:

Where will the power come from? If from fossil fuels no carbon benefit. Nuclear is the only real solution but will we do this (at very high cost)

How will Government replace fuel and road taxes


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Post by manny » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:19 pm

lets have flintstone style cars and deal with the rising obesity 'epidemic' at the same time... :lol:



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Post by drcdb15 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:46 pm

manny wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:19 pm
lets have flintstone style cars and deal with the rising obesity 'epidemic' at the same time... :lol:
22 years ago was 1995. As I recall, at that time few people outside DARPA had heard of the internet, and fewer still knew what it was. I was still 4 years away from getting my very first mobile phone. Most cars came with steel wheels as standard, and cruise control was unheard of for most people. A lucky few had air-con, and about the same number were getting their first taste of ABS. I think we can be pretty confident that in 22 years from now the daily driver will be very different from today, and most likely won't be a "driver" at all, but some sort of driverless mass transit module, like a Boris bike that you call up from home, and leave at your destination, getting an identical but different one on the way back. That's assuming of course that in 22 years' time people still commute to work. Or know what an "office" is...


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Post by manny » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:17 am

drcdb15 wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:46 pm
manny wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:19 pm
lets have flintstone style cars and deal with the rising obesity 'epidemic' at the same time... :lol:
22 years ago was 1995. As I recall, at that time few people outside DARPA had heard of the internet, and fewer still knew what it was. I was still 4 years away from getting my very first mobile phone. Most cars came with steel wheels as standard, and cruise control was unheard of for most people. A lucky few had air-con, and about the same number were getting their first taste of ABS. I think we can be pretty confident that in 22 years from now the daily driver will be very different from today, and most likely won't be a "driver" at all, but some sort of driverless mass transit module, like a Boris bike that you call up from home, and leave at your destination, getting an identical but different one on the way back. That's assuming of course that in 22 years' time people still commute to work. Or know what an "office" is...
It's quite worrying that over the last 22 years ...obesity has risen to the point where the 2/3 the population of Britain are classified as obese....what will happen in 22 years!!..i don't think commuting will be possible for most of Britain...there's always a price to pay for 'progression..' any way going off track...

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Post by Alan SS1 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:49 pm

as for running a leccy car, how do they cope with cold? only Tesla seems to have a worth while range and the others are all 'town run-abouts'
so I'll have to convert the Regal to electric as i have a wee book on a DIY project ISBN 0 905247 02 7 by B J Prigmore 1978!!

Not sure if the wind whirly thingys are going to keep up with demand? last week we had a fairly quiet spell of weather (unusual) and we drove for miles and all I could see were stationary wind not whirly, it does spoil the 'landscape' that folk come here to see :(
on plus side it was nice and toasty so no need for any heating to be switched on (maybe air con?), shame you couldn't make a cuppa , need to make a brew on windy days and put into the thermos ? :wink:

it's folk that live in flats that will have bigger issue unless there are 'parking posts' every twenty feet?

and whilst I accept we can't keep burning fossil fuels, did anybody count now many trees just went up in a puff of smoke in Southern France :wink: (or how much 'dirty gas' is flared off in the north sea cos no infra-structure was put in to get the gas ashore, only oil was 'valued in 70's? )

I guess we don't have any industry left so the 'major polluters' will be transport! :shock:


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Post by drcdb15 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:47 pm

An item on the BBC website today reminded me of my prediction back in 2015 that you lot all scoffed at:
scimjim wrote:
Tue May 12, 2015 10:28 pm
drcdb15 wrote:By the time of the next election the majority of drivers will be using electric cars...
really :shock:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45084671

Now wor Terry has moved the goalposts a tad hasn't she regarding the next election date, but even so it looks like I won't be too far out :w


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Post by drcdb15 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:54 pm

What I'd really like to see is a retro-fit industry spring up, that produces engine swaps, take out the old IC motor and slot in an electric plug n play substitute. It seems daft scrapping an otherwise perfectly good car just because the engine is undesirable. So why not take out the motor and fuel tank, both pretty bulky units, and slot in an electric system that is compatible. After all, we do petrol - diesel swaps, dual fuel, auto - manual etc etc - why not petrol - electric?

[Discuss] :wink:


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Post by Alan SS1 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:02 pm

Alan SS1 wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:49 pm

have to convert the Regal to electric as i have a wee book on a DIY project ISBN 0 905247 02 7 by B J Prigmore 1978!!
like wot I suggested? ? ? :wink:

not sure you boys with an Essex / cologne will find much room for batteries, but the motor will be much smaller than that V6 lump so room in there?
remove spare wheel as weel?


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Post by scimjim » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:13 pm

drcdb15 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:54 pm
What I'd really like to see is a retro-fit industry spring up, that produces engine swaps, take out the old IC motor and slot in an electric plug n play substitute. It seems daft scrapping an otherwise perfectly good car just because the engine is undesirable. So why not take out the motor and fuel tank, both pretty bulky units, and slot in an electric system that is compatible. After all, we do petrol - diesel swaps, dual fuel, auto - manual etc etc - why not petrol - electric?

[Discuss] :wink:
it has already started

#google :-)


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Post by scimjim » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:15 pm

drcdb15 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:47 pm
An item on the BBC website today reminded me of my prediction back in 2015 that you lot all scoffed at:
scimjim wrote:
Tue May 12, 2015 10:28 pm
drcdb15 wrote:By the time of the next election the majority of drivers will be using electric cars...
really :shock:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45084671

Now wor Terry has moved the goalposts a tad hasn't she regarding the next election date, but even so it looks like I won't be too far out :w
this is the most important bit in that article:

Meanwhile, prices for a rechargeable lithium ion battery fell below $200 per kilowatt-hour this year for the first time, says Sarwant Singh, head of the transport team at consultancy Frost & Sullivan. That's down from $750 in 2010.

"The forecast is they'll fall below $100 in the next five years," says Mr Singh. "[Then] they become really attractive, and below $80, you're really killing the gasoline engine."


if that is accurate and the inability to recycle battery components doesn't muddy the waters (or appear to be an easy tax target to government), then your prediction may only be one election out :mrgreen:


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Post by French Coupé » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:28 pm

Alan SS1 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:02 pm
not sure you boys with an Essex / cologne will find much room for batteries, but the motor will be much smaller than that V6 lump so room in there?
remove spare wheel as weel?
Jaguar have developed an electric E-Type with the batteries where the engine was and the electric motor in the place of the gearbox, so it should be do-able in a Scimitar. There are several small companies in California that already do conversions on Beetles and Porsche 911s. No doubt that within the next few years there will be off the shelf solutions available for those who want to convert.


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Post by peter freeman » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:55 pm

So when will work will start on the ten nuclear power stations required to charge all of these batteries.



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Post by willholderogri » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:09 pm

Yes Peter is the closest in this discusion the infrastructure is not adequate at the moment


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Post by drcdb15 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:14 pm

willholderogri wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:09 pm
Yes Peter is the closest in this discusion the infrastructure is not adequate at the moment
It's understandable that the development of the car comes first, and the enabling infrastructure will follow on, once it's firm what exactly is needed. This of course is what happened with horse-drawn technology - horses came first, blacksmiths followed later - and also with petrol fuelled vehicles. We never had a steam-driven refuelling infrastructure because it rapidly became evident that we would not have mass usage of steam driven vehicles.

There is no doubt the re-fuelling technology is an issue for electric, but when folks talk about the 'charging infrastructure', most are thinking of mere extension of what we are already used to today - 13 amp sockets and appliances plugged in using a flexible lead.

It doesn't take much thought to appreciate that this will be wholly inappropriate for electric cars - for one thing, people such as high rise dwellers won't have a 200 metre long cable to drape out of their 24th floor window to their car down outside at street level. Also, car recharging currents will put a huge strain on the domestic wiring, and re-wiring a nation of around 30 million dwellings isn't going to happen overnight. Then there's the issue of taxation - the government takes 5% VAT on domestic electricity, and they will certainly want a lot more than that to replace fuel duty when we're all using electric cars. But how will anyone know what electricity has been used to charge the car, and what has been used to power the lounge lights and the telly?

It's very clear to me that simply extending what we've already got simply isn't going to be viable, and imho the stage is set for a completely disruptive new technolgy. And here it is:

Think of a torch, powered by batteries. When the battery is exhausted, what do you do - plug it into the mains? Of course not - you simply change the old batteries for new. Now that used to be an issue back in the 1960s, when every different type of torch (or radio, or electric shaver etc etc) had a different type of battery. But it's many years now since battery sizes were standardised into perhaps half a dozen standard sizes which between them cover pretty much every type of power drain application from TV remotes that last for ever to mobile phones that last 24 hours if you're lucky. So, all we need in cars is ....

Batteries that can be changed over. Imagine the car has a battery compartment, just like a torch - except in the car it's a large flat slab looking for all the world like a floorpan. You drive into the 'filling station' and your car is automatically robot-positioned over a conveyor. Panels on each side of the 'floorpan' slide aside, and the 'filling station' machinery softly clamps onto each side of the car. Hydraulic arms gently slide the exhausted 'floorpan' battery module out one side, onto a conveyor, of which more later. Simultaneously a freshly charged battery module slides into position from the other side (being the other end of the conveyor loop). With the exchange made, the docking station uncouples from the car, and the driver drives away, with a fresh 250 mile range battery module safely locked in under the seats.

Meanwhile, back in the 'filling station', the battery modules on the conveyor loop are being slid against terminal connections that charge them continuously - think of a conveyor toaster toasting bread in a hotel restaurant - so that by the time they emerge at the other end of the loop they are fully re-charged and ready to be inserted into a waiting customer's car.

This system doesn't require any modifications at all to any owner's domestic property, doesn't take any longer than is currently needed to pump liquid fuel into a car's fuel tank, and being totally separate lends itself to separate taxation structure. Plus it retains full employment for existing filling station staff.

Remember folks, you saw it here first :lol:

Oh, and if you think car companies will never standardise on battery sizes, first they can be forced to by legislation (such as is used for lighting, seat belts, pollution control etc), but even without that they managed to standardise things like wheels sizes, headlamp bulbs, fuel specifications, and a host of minor componentry - what is 'dipping into the West Midlands Parts Bin' if not de facto standardisation?
Last edited by drcdb15 on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by philhoward » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:25 pm

“Change my batteries because I don’t have enough time to wait for a recharge” is already online, I thought?

Totally agree though - who’s going to magic up all the electric to charge them in the first place? One thing I’ve not found a definitive answer to is if all the “free”/renewable energy gets stolen by the battery chargers, what’s the effect if it doesn’t hit its intended destination (slowing tides/stopping sunlight hitting the ground/sea)?


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