Engine Rebuild Novice

Discuss and exchange views and technical information about our cars.

Moderators: scimjim, philhoward, Lukeyboy46, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington

Post Reply
IanC
RSSOC Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:17 pm
Location: Horncastle, Lincs
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by IanC » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:00 am

Hi,
I'm about to undertake the rebuild of an Essex engine from a kit of newly machined parts. I've never done a whole one before, just head swaps, bore honing , re-rings.
Anyway the question is - do I need to use a specialized assembly grease to prevent the engine running 'dry' before the oil circulates, or just oil all the bearings etc as advised in the RSSOC workshop manual?
Thanks in advance, Ian


Current : SE5a 4spd auto project
Past: SE5, SE5a x 3, GTC x 3, SE6, SE6a

b.c.flat hat
RSSOC Member
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: St. Martins, Oswestry.
Has thanked: 90 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by b.c.flat hat » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:12 am

Hi Ian. Not really cos when the thing has heads on, oil filter, sump filled and gauge piped temporarily yer can whizz the oil pump drive down the dizzy hole wi' battery drill to prime and pressurise the lub circuit. Good init?



Tinker man
RSSOC Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:39 am
Location: Davenham Cheshire
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by Tinker man » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:20 am

good morning,

personally i have always used a cam lube (sort of grease based lube) on cams and new bearings and a home brew of engine oil and STP (blue one) for other touching surfaces.. but not sure its totally necessary, i feel better knowing that when the engine turns (under its own power or not) there are no bare surfaces touching. also handy to do if the engine is going to be left standing for a while before installation and use. then run up the oil pump as described before firing.

just my two pence worth and i am not, repeat not, a professional engine builder so ignore me if you so desire and no offence taken.

thanks, Ian.


If it is made of nuts and bolts I WILL take it apart..... going back together is a whole different ball game

User avatar
peter freeman
RSSOC Member
Posts: 9789
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:12 pm
Location: Newcastle
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 347 times
Contact:

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by peter freeman » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:30 am

Alan Dean advised me to use this stuff when putting a engine together - I have no reason to think it is not advisable.
Attachments
20190307_112416.jpg
20190307_112416.jpg (91.18 KiB) Viewed 2137 times



IanC
RSSOC Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:17 pm
Location: Horncastle, Lincs
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by IanC » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:11 pm

Right, thanks a lot guys, it seems the belt and braces is to use some form of assembly lube, then spin the oil pump drive before starting up proper. I was going to turn the engine over with no spark untill i got a reading on the oil pressure gauge, but the 'drill down the distributor hole' idea is a cracker!
Thanks again, Ian


Current : SE5a 4spd auto project
Past: SE5, SE5a x 3, GTC x 3, SE6, SE6a

User avatar
Alan SS1
Posts: 2082
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:58 pm
Location: BoD, Aberdeen
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 40 times
Contact:

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by Alan SS1 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:03 pm

IanC wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:11 pm
Right, thanks a lot guys, it seems the belt and braces is to use some form of assembly lube, then spin the oil pump drive before starting up proper. I was going to turn the engine over with no spark untill i got a reading on the oil pressure gauge, but the 'drill down the distributor hole' idea is a cracker!
Thanks again, Ian
did the same with the 480 when started from a LONG lay-up, advantage there was easy access to oil pump on front of engine, and when oil was fully around the engine the load on the drill changed giving a warm-fuzzy feeling (in addition to checking it was pouring over the cam shaft etc)


SS1 1600 (AJZ ----), C30 (SK 57 ---)& 480 (EVU ---) soon to be two
Regal 330 (VAV ---) now passed to another 'keen owner'

User avatar
reliant-reviver
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4843
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:05 pm
Location: Beighton, Sheffield
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by reliant-reviver » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:17 am

For assembly I use graphogen. Sure there are modern alternatives but can't go far wrong with it and a little goes a long way.

http://www.graphogen.co.uk/index.asp?pageid=644920
Last edited by reliant-reviver on Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Philip Andrew.
'74 Robin Super Saloon, '84 SS1 1300, '86 SS1 1800ti, '87 SS1 1300
Previous: I lost count around fifty.

gtcse8
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1796
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:11 am
Location: Steeton, Yorkshire Dales
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 107 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by gtcse8 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:41 am

Ian if the Camshaft has had any work/grinding done it`s essential to blather all of it and the followers in CAM LUBE/CAM BEDDING IN OIL. :idea:
There are a few brands out there and IF you got a regrind they SHOULD have given you a tube or bottle. :!:
Don`t use normal engine oil as its been shown to NOT provide enough lubrication on newly ground surfaces. :cry:
Cam lube is high in Zinc and Phosphorous, both of which are able to take high loads and heat. :wink:
Do your research on the running in procedures BEFORE putting anything back together as certain oils and grease WILL need putting on surfaces AS YOU ASSEMBLE THEM. :idea:
DON`T just assemble, fill with oil, and then prime everything with the oil pump spinning tip as the oil will not get to certain areas immediately, just like the water in the cooling system there will be air pockets. :w

I have built loads of engines over the years and the ONLY failure I have had to deal with was due to the monkeys who installed the engine dropped it, split the sump, didn`t notice the river of oil going into the pit, and wondered why the engine made a lot of noise when running it at 2500 rpm as recommended. :bh

Good luck, Mark


Mark Wilson. See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s,1 & 1/2 GTC`s, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

TrevorG
Posts: 319
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:09 am
Location: Thomas chapel in Pembrokeshire
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by TrevorG » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:24 am

I've always used graphogen on the race bikes as well......especially useful if you plan to leave an engine out for a couple of months. Love the oil pump drill trick on the Essex though....Will use this on mine.



User avatar
Nigel Clark
RSSOC Member
Posts: 508
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:57 pm
Location: Market Harborough, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by Nigel Clark » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:54 pm

Breaking in the new cam is always the most critical part of a new engine's first start. Different cam suppliers have different advice about assembly lube. Most say run the engine 20 minutes at 2000rpm as soon as it starts, to break in the new cam and followers. Ask your supplier about lube and start up procedure, then follow his guidelines to the letter.

Using a drill down the distributor hole to build oil pressure is definitely a smart move.

Nigel



IanC
RSSOC Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:17 pm
Location: Horncastle, Lincs
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by IanC » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:40 pm

Thanks guys for the further info. The full story on the 'kit of parts' saga is that the engine that came with the car had seized due to oil pump failure ( not the drive shaft). The crank has been machined and the 'kit' includes new 010" b/e and 020" mains shells (and +030" rings for the oversize pistons). However I've not got the block yet (due to arrive next week), but in a photo I can see it's got a steel timing wheel attached, so I'm guessing the cam hasn't been touched.Having said that, it would seem that from the above advice it wouldn't do any harm to lube up the cam/followers to protect them on start up. Here's hoping the cam's OK!
Thanks again, Ian
Last edited by IanC on Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Current : SE5a 4spd auto project
Past: SE5, SE5a x 3, GTC x 3, SE6, SE6a

User avatar
David Tew
RSSOC Member
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:09 am
Location: Cotswolds
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by David Tew » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:33 pm

IanC wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:40 pm
it wouldn't do any harm to lube up the cam/followers to protect them on start up
This is what I use. IMHO if it's supplied by the cam manufacturer it must be OK. You'll get 250ml (plenty for a few cams) for £10-£11 delivered online.
Kent cam_lube.jpg
Kent cam_lube.jpg (44.45 KiB) Viewed 1920 times


- My wife says I don't listen to her ...... or something like that! -
SE4B Coupe - rebuilt on brand-new chassis.
Bought in 1978 and an RSSOC member since. 😲

efi_sprintgte
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1246
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:24 pm
Location: Sutton, Surrey
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by efi_sprintgte » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:05 pm

Cam and followers aside, engine oil is OK as long as the engine is built and run. An assembly lube stays much better so for engines that are built and then stored it is a much better option. Torco, Millers and many others make it and it does not cost a lot... worth it IMHO.


JC

IanC
RSSOC Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:17 pm
Location: Horncastle, Lincs
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by IanC » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:33 pm

Thanks for the tips. The plan is to get the engine fixed, in and running asap!
Its recipient is pretty smart, so I'm really looking forward to getting it mobile.
Attachments
scimi.jpg
scimi.jpg (202.83 KiB) Viewed 1894 times


Current : SE5a 4spd auto project
Past: SE5, SE5a x 3, GTC x 3, SE6, SE6a

Diyhell
RSSOC Member
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:27 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Engine Rebuild Novice

Post by Diyhell » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:40 pm

Lovely looking car!


SE6a needing lots of work...

Post Reply

Return to “General Technical Discussion”