Radio relay and electric aerial.

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mattscimmy
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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by mattscimmy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:23 pm

I think I need to replace the solenoid(?) which works the aerial. I have power in the blue and white wire to aerial but not the green wire to radio or the blue and red switching wire.
GW didnt have any suggestions.
I'm sure something is available to replace this but being an electrical numpty I have no idea what to look for.
Can anyone help please.
I would like to keep the standard setup for now.



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scimjim
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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by scimjim » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:39 pm

You’ll need to draw a wiring diagram because it doesn’t sound like the standard setup which would probably just be a red 12v (possibly relayed), a black earth and a blue wire from the radio.


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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by guybetts » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:45 pm

Isn't it a motor rather than a solenoid. A motor rotates, whereas a solenoid typically has a linear motion (I've never taken one apart so could be wrong :oops: )

As to a suggestion concerning replacement, I'd of thought electric aerials are much the same. Question is would an SS1/SST/Sabre one be the same? Are these no longer available as well? Many other cars have them too. I'd have thought the electrics are much the same, except the need for an earth wire from the motor rather than using the body.

There's a fair bit of room in the GTC wing area, easily accessible from the drivers footwell (albeit with a bit of contortion :? )

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mattscimmy
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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by mattscimmy » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:47 am

Sorry folks forgot to say it's a 6a.
According to the wiring diagram it's labelled "6 the aerial relay"
"5" is the radio and "4" the aerial motor.
My radio doesn't have a blue aerial feed so I need this relay.
I could run new wires from various places but this is a much neater solution.
I guess I just need a relay to switch a live wire when power is drawn for the radio. I know nothing about relays😶
Thanks for the replies.



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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by scimjim » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:02 am

Okay, so you’re looking at this diagram? I guess This is the standard setup then.

Unfortunately I have no idea how that relay is working, presumably the green wire from the radio is the switching line but I can’t see how it changes the polarity of the blue/white and blue/red to make the aerial motor up or down?
B109C370-F9EE-444E-9C0D-6A6E44994408.png
B109C370-F9EE-444E-9C0D-6A6E44994408.png (78.2 KiB) Viewed 728 times
This would be a normal electric aerial wiring diagram
1DD72A02-3914-46B5-90B0-F9472B90906C.jpeg
1DD72A02-3914-46B5-90B0-F9472B90906C.jpeg (356.32 KiB) Viewed 728 times


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
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David Tew
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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by David Tew » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:33 am

I think it works like this:
Green is switched feed from radio for aerial control.
Blue/white and blue/red are the aerial feeds - one for up one for down.

It is all controlled by a 5-pin relay (87A):
87A relay.PNG
87A relay.PNG (338.61 KiB) Viewed 719 times
Pin 87 = aerial down (either Bl/W or Bl/R)
Pin 87A = aerial up ( " "
Pin 30 = +12v (blue)
Pin 86 = earth (not shown in wiring diagram)
Pin 85 = +12v feed from radio. (green)

Power is fed to one of the blue/stripe wires to extend aerial and the other to retract it. There are limit switches inside the aerial to stop at at top or bottom.

If you're not getting any power on the green wire when the radio is turned on then it's a problem with the radio.

:)


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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by scimjim » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:53 am

That would make more sense - it needed the extra pin for the earth :D


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Dennis Nicholas
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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:53 am

SCN_0002.jpg
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This is my set up.....sorry no time at moment to explain where relay terminal points are on the diag. but hopefully some one can add explanation and further wire colouring.
Hope it helps

Dennis


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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by David Tew » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:21 pm

That's interesting as it appears you have the limit switches outside the aerial and use a DPDT relay to reverse the motor. I presume all that is actually contained within the aerial housing? Unusual if it is as most aerials have an earth and two feeds, one up and one down. :?

Conversion to the standard external relay/internal limit switches gives 87a relay wiring:
Relay coil switch +ve = 85 (green)
Relay coil eth = 86
Motor 6 = 87 & 87a (bl/w & bl/r)
12v +ve feed = 30 (blue)

I know that doesn't work on your diagram as it appears that the motor has only ever a +ve feed. However all the aerials I've seen have a twin-wound motor with an integral earth.

Lots of different installations, obviously. :wink:


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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by AJL Electronics » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:33 pm

For a standard installation of a radio with aerial control feed, none of that is required. Just permanent live and earth to the aerial and the control wire connected to the blue/white or blue of the radio.


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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by mattscimmy » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:17 pm

Crikey!😮
My heads spinning now.
Jim, yes that's the diagram that matches my wiring. I have replaced the old aerial which was rotten, the new aerial is wired as per your second diagram.
My radio doesn't have a blue wire only power earth and speaker.
My aerial relay has blue and blue/white wire permanent live. If the green wire could cause the red/blue wire to be on or off that would work the aerial. David, my aerial controls up and down itself.
I only need to tell the aerial if the radio is on or off.
Dennis, Thankyou but I'm going to have to spend some time studying your diagram.
AJL , exactly , but this setup must be for radios like mine then that don't have the blue aerial wire.
I thought the green wire was power feed to the radio which when the radio was turned on would switch on the blue red wire to extend the aerial. Radio switched off blue red wire dead aerial retracts.
It appears then that the relay as fitted gives permanent live to blue/ white to retract the aerial and when power is applied to green this switches off blue/white and on blue/red.
So what I need to do is throw away the relay and run a switched wire from inside the radio.
There isn't anything I could wire into a live feed for the radio which when the radio is switched on would give a switched feed to the aerial?



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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by AJL Electronics » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:21 pm

Connect the blue control wire to ignition control. Aerial will then go up when the ignition is on and down when off.


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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by mattscimmy » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:50 pm

AJL.
"Can't see the wood for the trees"
Springs to mind.
Thankyou.



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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:34 pm

David Tew wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:21 pm
That's interesting as it appears you have the limit switches outside the aerial and use a DPDT relay to reverse the motor. I presume all that is actually contained within the aerial housing? Unusual if it is as most aerials have an earth and two feeds, one up and one down. :?

Conversion to the standard external relay/internal limit switches gives 87a relay wiring:
Relay coil switch +ve = 85 (green)
Relay coil eth = 86
Motor 6 = 87 & 87a (bl/w & bl/r)
12v +ve feed = 30 (blue)

I know that doesn't work on your diagram as it appears that the motor has only ever a +ve feed. However all the aerials I've seen have a twin-wound motor with an integral earth.

Lots of different installations, obviously. :wink:
Dave I have a feeling (long time ago since I did the job) that the relay is in the aerial casing; the limit switches are in the casing and operated by bits on the motor rotor. My aerial goes up and down by means of a nylon line wound in two deferent directions hence when the relay changes polarity to the brushes it winds in the opposite direction.

Mattscimmy..just for information on terminology.....if you look at my diagram the metal bit that the relay coil os wound round (called the slug) is physically connected to the two switch arms so that when lectric goes through the coil the arms are moved over to the second set of contacts and when off the slug is spring loaded and goes back to switching to the first set of contacts. A contact that is close with power off the relay coil is called a NORMALLY CLOSED (NC)....these are numbered 1 and 3 in my diag., while 2 and 4 are called NORMALLY OPEN (NO)......hence the reference to the tags on the drawing of the standard relay above of 87 NO and 87a NC.....equating to my 2 and 4 NO and 1 and 3 NC.

85 and 86 are purely the power supply to operate relay coil so that when power switched on either by the radio or manual or ignition etc. the relay activates and changes the switch positions.
(just realised my coil terminals are numbered back to front in the diag.!)

There are several ways of gettig it all to work depending on the type of aerial and whether radio switching, manual switching or ignition switching is used.
On mine there is green switching wire for the relay coil; blue 12V supply for the motor drive and a common earth (often the aerial casing) black wire (one end of relay coil and common point between 2 and 3 onnected to aerial case and a stud/screw on the case to connect the black

Dennis


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Radio relay and electric aerial.

Post by David Tew » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:11 pm

:w :lol:
Mattscimmy, you'll sort it one way or the other.

There are obviously different aerial installations depending on make and model. Certainly the Hirschmann I fitted to my SL600 required an external relay to switch the feed between the two wires as per the 6A wiring. Much easier with +ve/-ve and switch wire as Andy suggests.

I think I'll stick with the Coupe roof aerial. :D


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