Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

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Crowther
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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by Crowther » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:48 pm

I have a '72 5a that started exhibiting similar symptoms last year. Started well, ran OK for 15 minutes or so, started hesitating, then misfiring, then dying altogether. Heat seemed to be a factor.
Many months of buggering about later and the thing that fixed it was replacing the wire between the tacho and coil (thereby removing the eureka wire altogether) and running with a 12V coil (my car has a Pertronix/Aldon electronic ignition unit).

Perhaps these cars are getting to an age where the eureka wires are failing.

If you end up doing this job, you can do it without removing the dashboard, but it's fiddly. "Fiddly but doable" is how Phil described it. The wire to coil + goes into the loom, then into the nearside wing through a grommet. From there it wends its way back to behind the glovebox and across to the tacho. I left most of the existing wire where it was and fed a new wire into the grommet taped to a long length of garden tie wire. I then removed the blower panel from the passenger footwell, and by sheer luck managed to push the wire down the wing so I could get a hand on it from the footwell. From there I repeated the tie wire trick to guide the new ignition wire, carefully, behind the ignition panel until I could get a hand to it from the driver's footwell. Finally I crimped a bullet onto it and connected it to the tacho.

This worked for me. More than that I cannot say, but I remember the frustration of those many months chasing the problem down.


New and proud owner of "Scimba" ('72 SE5a).
Learning slowly and driving quickly...

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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by willholderogri » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:50 am

Or just use the green wire from the voltage stabiliser (OR as I have done use the dark green stabilser wire to activate a relay direct to a positive feed ) with a fuse in series of course .


1962 mini, bedford CA , KR200. morris 1000, mini pickup.several escorts,ford grandad.ford cortina X2 ,astra, SE5A x 2 ,ford focus.

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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by Pommy » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:45 am

Crowther, is this a eureka, forgive the pun, moment, as this problem started the tacho stopped working. Thanks.
Will, your solution looks simpler, electrics are way beyond my pay grade, a diagram would help me understand..
Pommy


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1973 Se5a Auto

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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by scimjim » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:23 am

Wiring diagrams here


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by scimjim » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:25 am

Prove/disprove by fitting a non-ballast coil and powering it straight from an ignition switched 12v supply - or buy a ballast resistor and feed the coil from that instead of your normal feed.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:04 am

Pommy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:10 pm
Thanks for that, really don't understand any of it. Been using the car for 5 years without any major issues, my current problem started Nov last, not modified any of the electrics, I need it explained how a ballast issue could cause my lack of go but only after 20 mins running, and what I would need to do, ie were is the eureka wire. Pommy
The ignition wire (white) that supplies the initial 12 volts for the coil when the ignition switch is switched to the normal running position goes from switch to taco then into the loom of wires behind the dashboard which goes down through the passenger side front wing then out into the engine compartment and out of the loom onto a coil terminal. Within the loom of wires and near the engine compartment the white ignition wire is joined onto the end of another piece of wire (called the EUREKA) and that piece of wire has a higher resistance to electric flow. It is the EUREKA wire (or another bit of white joined on the end of the E wire) that emerges from the loom onto the coil so the only way to check the eureka wire is to cut the loom open and follow the EUREKA wire back from the coil to its joint with the white ignition wire. Resistance to electric flow generates heat over a period of time in the resistance (wire). A poor joint may be ok cold but form a poor joint when heated up making more resistance and more heat and may even become an intermittent joint.
I think a good thing to do on the 5 if the EUREKA is suspect/faulty is to either run another white from the tacho to one of the later ceramic ballast resistors then from resistor to coil -OR- open up loom and trace EUREKA wire back to joint with ignition white wire, cut before joint, and remove EUREKA. Join a new white wire (solder joint with shrink sleeve over) and run that to a new ceramic ballast resistor then from resistor to coil. This way givs easy access to relevant positions for fault finding and checking voltages at various points.Peter Freeman's excellent coloured wiring diagrams show the EUREKA as a purple length with the white wire at either end.

I think it is a MUST to get a colour print out on A3 paper laminated to allow far easier faultfinding on the whole car......very well worth the small expense and may even save that expensive big burn out through connecting a wire in a wrong place. :wink:


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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:10 am

Pommy wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:45 am
Crowther, is this a eureka, forgive the pun, moment, as this problem started the tacho stopped working. Thanks.
Will, your solution looks simpler, electrics are way beyond my pay grade, a diagram would help me understand..

Ah there you go - a lesson to all...the tacho stopping at the same time....tell us the FULL symptoms and details to start with since this gives a better chance of sussing out a problem......even if symptoms do not seem to be related.
Last edited by Dennis Nicholas on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:16 am

willholderogri wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:50 am
Or just use the green wire from the voltage stabiliser (OR as I have done use the dark green stabilser wire to activate a relay direct to a positive feed ) with a fuse in series of course .
Would that create possible future miss-understanding......non standard wiring ? :wink:
But then you will have drawn a wiring diagram to be passed on with the car details to future owner(s).


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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by willholderogri » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:03 pm

Pommy wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:45 am
Crowther, is this a eureka, forgive the pun, moment, as this problem started the tacho stopped working. Thanks.
Will, your solution looks simpler, electrics are way beyond my pay grade, a diagram would help me understand..
Pommy
pm me and I will send you the details


1962 mini, bedford CA , KR200. morris 1000, mini pickup.several escorts,ford grandad.ford cortina X2 ,astra, SE5A x 2 ,ford focus.

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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by willholderogri » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:04 pm

Dennis Nicholas wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:16 am
willholderogri wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:50 am
Or just use the green wire from the voltage stabiliser (OR as I have done use the dark green stabilser wire to activate a relay direct to a positive feed ) with a fuse in series of course .
Would that create possible future miss-understanding......non standard wiring ? :wink:
But then you will have drawn a wiring diagram to be passed on with the car details to future owner(s).
I always draw a diagram but my electronics / electrics are way removed from standard (as anybody who has seen my car will tell you


1962 mini, bedford CA , KR200. morris 1000, mini pickup.several escorts,ford grandad.ford cortina X2 ,astra, SE5A x 2 ,ford focus.

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Stuttering / Cutting out, petrol starvation

Post by Pommy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:43 pm

Made the wiring change suggested by Willholderogri and Crowther to day, it worked, 45mins running no problems, who'd have thought, still I will use this as a learning experience, go out for a good test run and put it behind me. Many Thanks to all you guys, until the next time :-) and there will be... Pommy


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