Scimitar 4x4 Prototype to be Auctioned

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Scimitar 4x4 Prototype to be Auctioned

Post by Roger Pennington » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:30 pm

NTDWM (sadly) but it looks as though the Ferguson 4x4 prototype GTE is to be auctioned by Brightwells on March 21st. They say a further announcement will be made on Monday 19th

Note - above is now a dead link - Catalogue Link here


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Scimitar 4x4 Prototype to be Auctioned

Post by roymck » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:33 pm

From the man who said he would never split his collection up !!



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Scimitar 4x4 Prototype to be Auctioned

Post by scimjim » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:34 pm

roymck wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:33 pm
From the man who said he would never split his collection up !!
I thought he sold the whole lot to JLR?


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Scimitar 4x4 Prototype to be Auctioned

Post by Roger Pennington » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:42 pm

scimjim wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:34 pm
I thought he sold the whole lot to JLR?
Yes that's what I thought too - it does say "on behalf of an important multinational client" - probably describes JLR reasonably well? Maybe there's a get-out clause on the original deal?


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Scimitar 4x4 Prototype to be Auctioned

Post by Coupe Racing » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:47 am

JLR definitely own it as I spoke to the chap who looks after the collection including that bulk purchase of cars a few years back


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Post by gtcse8 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:54 am

I presume your all referring to Jag/landRover ?.


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Scimitar 4x4 Prototype to be Auctioned

Post by philhoward » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:12 am

Yep.


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Post by drcdb15 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:22 pm

Can someone educate me about this car please ? I recall the JLR collection history broadly, and this car is part of it, but is it particularly pertinent to the Scimitar story ? By which I mean, was it a Reliant, Ogle or MB prototype, or someone else's home-brew idea? There have been many Scimitar variants like engine swaps, pick-ups and SE5 fronts on an SE6 rear and so on, which generally don't merit the consternation suggested in this thread - why is this car any different ?


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Post by philhoward » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:33 pm

It was a Reliant prototype which eventually ended up in a private collection along with o load of others (including some very nice/old Jags). Said collector wasn’t interested in selling anything individually but eventually they only agreed to sell as a lot - lock, stock and barrel. I believe JLR were that buyer who have obviously got round to deciding what they want to keep and what they don’t. The GTE doesn’t really fit into their portfolio!


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Post by CNHSS1 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:47 pm

Pheobe Rolt, the FF developments founders daughter, competes at our Curborough in her 60s mini, also seen her at various hillclimbs in her classic single seaters. I spoke to her on the phone for an hour or so one evening when she was enquiring about an entry to Curborough and she mentioned reliant and her father. Her cars are prepped by her brother now iirc (Stuart?, ex FFD CEO then Ricardo CEO when they bought FFD). Think she spliys time bwtween uk and france now but she may have more info on the reliant/FFD project


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Post by scimjim » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:30 pm

One of the many cars that Ferguson prototyped before going into production with Jensen.


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Post by drcdb15 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:06 pm

Ah, thanks, found it now on Dave Poole's site - don't know how I missed that one! Well, I do actually - it wasn't really a Reliant project as such, was it - more like a development test bed for GKN to test their transmission and brakes. According to Dave Poole's information it wasn't even built up into a full car or road registered by Reliant, but by John Crosthwaite who although a Reliant employee at the time seems to have bought the by-then neglected chassis as his own personal project. There's no sign I can see of Reliant being involved in this project other than in providing the original rolling chassis/engine/box unit. Elvis Payne makes no mention of it in his very thorough records of Reliant's many and varied projects. In his Retro Rides post here: http://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/125 ... imitar-gte Dave Poole says it doesn't even have Reliant wheels! As ScimJim says, Ferguson used cars from several different source on their development programme, so I can't see this as a Reliant prototype - Reliant never had any even half serious plans to launch a 4WD Scimitar did they?


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Post by Roger Pennington » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:03 am

drcdb15 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:06 pm
Ah, thanks, found it now on Dave Poole's site - don't know how I missed that one! Well, I do actually - it wasn't really a Reliant project as such, was it - more like a development test bed for GKN to test their transmission and brakes. According to Dave Poole's information it wasn't even built up into a full car or road registered by Reliant, but by John Crosthwaite who although a Reliant employee at the time seems to have bought the by-then neglected chassis as his own personal project. There's no sign I can see of Reliant being involved in this project other than in providing the original rolling chassis/engine/box unit. Elvis Payne makes no mention of it in his very thorough records of Reliant's many and varied projects. In his Retro Rides post here: http://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/125 ... imitar-gte Dave Poole says it doesn't even have Reliant wheels! As ScimJim says, Ferguson used cars from several different source on their development programme, so I can't see this as a Reliant prototype - Reliant never had any even half serious plans to launch a 4WD Scimitar did they?
I think that downplays the role of Reliant quite substantially? John Crosthwaite wasn't just the guy who cleaned the toilets, he was Reliant's Chief Engineer, and the man behind the GTE chassis (and with a considerable motorsport history too). He was a supporter of the car when it was under development, and then later when he found it and rescued it, it wasn't in a backstreet in Birmingham, it was at the Reliant factory. And John then bought it from the factory. (see Don Pither's TSAIF). I knew John in the '90s when he used to attend our noggin, and he was always sorry he had sold it.
I would imagine that the reason Elvis made the mistake of not including it in his book is that for the last three decades or so, the car has been practically invisible, hidden in this reclusive collection?

(incidentally, I would be quite surprised if it *did* have Reliant wheels - after all the wheels have to fit onto the Ferguson driveshafts. )


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Post by scimjim » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:23 am

The whole body from the A post forward is longer than standard, so John C must have had a bodyshell modified at Reliant to fit?

Note the 5 stud Wheels too.
58948D49-6EE3-4DAE-8D8A-4C9372F8F324.jpeg
58948D49-6EE3-4DAE-8D8A-4C9372F8F324.jpeg (457.69 KiB) Viewed 980 times


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Post by scimjim » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:27 am

Previous thread when JLR bought the collection here


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Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
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1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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