Annoyed with W10

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Annoyed with W10

Post by toomanysabres » Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:01 am

As the time for free upgrade is running out I reluctantly decided to tiptoe away from XP.
So with a W7 pro I bought cheap ages ago I have just spent hours and hours with a spare HDisk getting that loaded.
a) It doesn't recognise the onboard sound chips.
b) There is no driver for my twin channel Matrox P650 AGP card.
But whatever, deal with that later.
Downloaded the W10 upgrade starter file ran it and guess what, it tells me that the AMD Athlon XP 2400+ processor is not supported.
Bastards.


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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by Remy2 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:01 am

Ditch it and go AppleMac :D



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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by toomanysabres » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:38 am

Huh your ARE joking, wouldn't touch an Apple with a bargepole. Too expensive and I have no desire to be locked in. What about all the other software I use.


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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by philhoward » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:58 am

Virtual Machines - solves everything.

If I'm reading this right, you upgraded your OS (and I think you knew the driver issue before?) just to get a further upgrade to that one before it's no longer free?

At least you only did it on a spare HDD!


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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by AllingtonGT » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:02 am

Run a Windows environment on your Mac, in parallel to Mac OS if you so desire. Expensive? Maybe so in comparison to some, but what price another weekend spent rebuilding Windows machines? Since we moved the kids to Mac I have never spent any days fixing stuff whereas before it was a weekly routine. At work we aggregate cloud services and have to deliver on Windows machines as some services have interface applications that only run on Windows machines. Nightmare. We spend more time sorting Windows than we do fixing our service.



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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by peter freeman » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:56 am

I keep XP Pro on my "standby" pc so I can run software that W10 does not like. Trying to update the NE Scim website with W10 does not work - file explorer in W10 does not open in the website. Good old XP.



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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by toomanysabres » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:15 am

No, I don't desire!! I haven't rebuilt the XP machine in years. I doubt a // environment will run Office 2003 and especially my XLS suite for rally results. Nor Paintshop pro with the plug-in Alien skin image doctor. And what about Mappoint 2011. I bet there will be problems with the Scanjet 4300C.
I had enough trouble connecting a Mac to a customer's Novell network more than once to know they give grief.
Also, how would a Mac handle the dual screen environment? And the two network connected laser printers.


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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by td99 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:47 am

For the price of a mac you can get new W10 compatible hardware...
Office 2003 runs on W10
W10's compatibility mode allows a lot of other old "incompatible" SW to run (eg even Lotus Millenium suite! - apart from Approach)
However, ScanJet 4300 not supported by W10.
(Old?) laser printers may also be problematic. I have a LaserJet 4050 working ok and that' pretty ancient.
Maybe best just to carry on with XP for now if you're happy with it.
But new hardware just works so much faster!


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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by AllingtonGT » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:57 am

We know new cars are built more complex to ensure obsolescence within a few years. Why are you surprised and vexed about IT (an even bigger consumerised market) being any different? XP is being removed from the game precisely because it is stable and usable. Maybe I'm cynical, but much IT now is designed to sell to people to solve problems they never knew they had. Moreover how many people then find it doesn't do half what they thought and they consign it to their trash without complaining?

In terms of network connectivity in the 80's & 90's Novell was always focused on Windows and provided functionality Microsoft hadn't/couldn't/wouldn't build into it's PC Windows, by 1995 Windows NT incorporated much of the Novell function. The last version of NetWare was 6.5 in 2003. NetWare 6.5 supported many Unix-like services and features together with Linux interoperability which worked with all major vendors operating systems. I think now you would be able to connect a Mac to just about anything you need to. Of course there are always challenges, but less so with Mac.

I'm sure we can all empathsise with your irritation but the products you mention will become unsupported too (if they aren't already) and you'll have to work out migration to something else at some point. Continuing with Microsoft isn't going to make things better any time soon as far as I can see. At least with Windows and Mac OS on the same machine you might be able to manage migration from your products in to something else?

I bought an expensive Mac Book in 2002 when I went freelance. It was then the most powerful they did and I winced when I bought it. It still works today - just switched it on to see, but I had to buy another in 2014 when finally browsers became unsupported and wouldn't run. The MS Office products still work though. Over 12 years I used it pretty hard, carried it miles between assignments and apart from adding bigger memory cards when they became available it never let me down once, never had a virus or a glitch. My current Mac Book caused the same wince when I bought it with an upgraded spec. It is now 2 years old and equivalent to the base spec Mac Book you can buy for half what I paid. As suggested in the previous post it's what you value your time and angst at. I'm just off to the workshop to get dirty pretending to fix a car.



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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by toomanysabres » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:18 am

I guess the Lasers will be OK Kyocera picked up in W7 & I guess Dell Colour will be OK. Someone told me Of2003 works. If I installed it I assume all the updates will flow down as well. Also, there is Memeo backup software. I like the way it dynamically saves every file as its placed on the HDisk. I didn't get past Netware 4.1 or 4.5 maybe, can't remember.
What really niggled me was finding the AMD processor is no good. Gates should be in jail for not having compatibility with Intel its supposed to be a dual-sourced chip. When I was with Sperry Univac you were not allowed to design in a chip that was not dual sourced.
Witness the factory that went bang making the black encapsulating plastic. Nobody could buy memory for ages.


Now: '62 Sabre 4, '63 Sabre Six, '65 SE4, '00 BMW E38 740i sport.
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Company: Cav SRi, Cav SRi 130, Honda Concerto 1.6 (yuk)

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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by Ben Kenobe » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:06 am

Regrettably that's how things go in the IT world. If you want to stay 'up to date' software wise then I'm afraid that like cars there is a point of obsolesence where you're on your own. What you're facing in IT terms is like the leaded v unleaded in car terms, the impact of modern fuels that incorporate ethanol on older fuel lines etc etc ... certain elements of the hardware need to change if you want to keep using.

W10 will work on AMD CPU's it depends on how old and which AMD architecture your 2400+ is (I have it running on the wifes AMD FX8350) but the 2400+ regardless of chip architecture past its sell by date years ago. Unfortunately replacing a CPU tends to mean replacing motherboard, memory and even hard drives etc depending how old your set up is.

The Matrox card you have was end of life designated by Matrox back in 2009, there are much better cards available now for not a lot of money.

I don't think you have any chance at all with the Scanjets - HP didn't even produce a W7 driver for those.

Some of your software should be fine in W10 - I still use Paintshop Pro for some things too !!, XLS suite is OpenOffice now I think and it too works on W10, Mappoint not a chance, Microsoft killed that off in favour of Bing maps there's no chance whatsoever they're going to let that run. Office 2003 I see no reason why it won't but is there any real reason to continue using a version of software that's 12 years old - one thing the MS Office products are good at is backward compatibility and I don't think that 2003 has any features that 2010 or later don't.

As for MAC's - I have Ipads although I said I couldn't justify one commercially - why ? - as has been stated, they just work, I don't care how, I don't need to upgrade anything, for checking emails etc in airports or on the go they get the job done reliably and consistently, an added bonus is that now MS Office can be had on the iPad etc - and - I can watch movies etc on long haul flights for hours and still have battery remaining. I have an iPhone for the same reason, I've had Androids and would never go back because of the issues that they had. When I'm out and about reliability is right at the top of the requirement specification, like it or not Apple products just work - because Apple stay in control of everything - yes I know there have been glitches following updates but the speed they get fixed at makes them a none issue - but there's a price to pay for this.


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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by toomanysabres » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:01 pm

Ta for those things.
My Excel sheets don't work in Open Office. Someone tried for me a long time ago. 3 sheets all linked and lots of conditional formatting and macros. If you want to try I can send a working sample. Paintshop Pro I have the Cd for 9.0 but it needs 9.01 for the add-on to work. What I did once before was to install 9.0 and then overwrite all the files in the installation directory from a copy of 9.01 and it worked.
The motherboard is an Abit KV7 socket 462, and no driver in W7 for the Via AC97 sound chips. Disks are OK it has IDE or SATA. not mixed though.
I learned something a while ago that if you make a small change to the registry that declares XP is running on a device being controlled by XP rather than a desktop PC eg as a cash terminal would. Then XP updates are still being supplied up to 2019. I haven't risked the change yet.


Now: '62 Sabre 4, '63 Sabre Six, '65 SE4, '00 BMW E38 740i sport.
Prev: '53 ZephyrZodiac, '64 Sabra GT, '68 Elan S3SE, Mk3 Cortina 2000GXL, Mk4 Cortina 2000 Est, 3 SE6a's, 2 SE5a, SE4a Turbo, 1800Ti.
Company: Cav SRi, Cav SRi 130, Honda Concerto 1.6 (yuk)

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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by Ben Kenobe » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:12 pm

I'd be happy to look them over but obviously if what I look at them with breaks them I'd need to run 'your' XLS - I keep virtual XP machines just for such eventualities. I can't guarantee an overnight fix because I'm stupid busy with the day job but more than happy to look when I get chance.


I write down everything I want to remember. That way, instead of spending a lot of time trying to remember what it is I wrote down, I spend the time looking for the paper I wrote it down on.

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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by peter freeman » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:33 pm

I am surprised you cannot run PSP Geoff - I run 7 and 8 on my W10 - admittedly I have to tell it its all right to open PSP7 but PSP8 runs no problem. PSP7 has to set up for compatibility with XP service pack 2



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Re: Annoyed with W10

Post by Corky » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:44 pm

+1 for going down the Mac route.

I used to rebuild my Windows computers every 6-12 months. Since buying a Mac in 2010 I've not done a thing to it other than run updates. It works a treat. It has dual boot to Win Vista, but I don't use that anymore.

MacOS has a few annoying quirks, but once you're used to it there's no going back.

Brilliant for photos and video handling too. Just started using office 365 with it, but all previous MS Office installs have worked seamlessly between Windows and Mac environments.


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