Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by Corky » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:04 pm

philhoward wrote:Steve (O) - if you think they're now legal, fit vented discs.

IF they subsequently get ruled not legal in your chosen class (via the regs or a complaint/Scrutineer) so be it.
Phil, with all due respect. I would say that there isn't any question as to whether they are legal at this moment in time.

* The scrutineer (who is also a Scim owner), makes it clear that they are, within the guidelines he mentions in the email.
* I have found SR's from at least half a dozen other championships that run to the BB clarifying that brakes are free in RG.
* The BB does not make any specific suggestion that brakes are not free in RG, and neither does it do that for MP.

On the weight of this evidence, I cannot see why legality should be questioned.

The next humungus can of worms is whether or not the SSSC makes a decision to add an SR to preclude them. My honest opinion is that they should not. Give it a season or two to see if it makes any sort of difference to competitiveness or the number and class of entries, then make an informed decision. Any decision made on the basis of Might's & Maybe's would be flawed and totally unfair IMHO.


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by reliant-reviver » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:30 pm

In my view I would allow 223 (GW) vents in RG, as most people who have them fitted have done them for the reasons of safety on the road and peace of mind.
On the basis they are now obsolete, it's a diminishing number of cars too.
They offer no increase in braking effort as has been mentioned multiple times, and aside from repeated usage / fade resistance, they offer no advantage over the solid setup, other than the one time you in-advertently over-cooked it on a flying lap. Brake failure due to boiled fluid is no laughing matter. Have experienced it big time at curbs in VTO on un-serviced knackered brakes. Thankfully at the turn in to the double lap, hence allowing the driver to straighten out and carry on back down the straight, other tracks are not so forgiving.

The advantage comes if the cars in question are running considerable additional upgrades, and with many putting down circa 200hp, they do need bigger stoppers, but then I'd also say in the spirit of things due to aforementioned power hikes they should not be in road going - the entry level class for not so serious competitors.

But what say should I have eh? GW vents or otherwise I'm not even sprinting next season! Perhaps we should allow that boat anchor antiquated hotch potch brake setup to be eligible in road going....... so long as the insurance certificate is present to prove it's been rightfully declared :w


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by reliant-reviver » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:38 pm

I think it boils down to what the compies want from the road going class really.

As touched on above, I do feel it should be as close to standard as possible (with exceptions for safety and parts availability ) in the name of encouraging driver competitiveness, and not vehicular preparation competitiveness, which so often fall in favour of those with the deepest pockets.

I am hoping this discussion does come to a conclusion before:
A. I make it to a sprint
B. My GW discs wear out and have to be replaced.....

Which may be a few years in both cases... but with the avid thread ramblers (myself included) you never quite know :lol:


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by CNHSS1 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:14 pm

no one will hold their breath re your appearance R-R :lol:

by some estimation theres only about 80 years fossil fuels left, so get a move on!


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by Coupe Racing » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:02 pm

There has been an lot of digging and research of other competitors series to bring this back into focus - why is our championship so hell bent on reverting back to the old problems and arguements that almost ruined it .

We have rules - thats it

Last point - the only way I see this that this can be clarified is this

CLASS

Standard
Road going with allowed mods per Blue Book
Mod Prod with allowed mods per Blue Book
Sports Libra

All above subject to power and weight handicap system already in place

Then I for one would not give a monkeys what anyone did to a Road Going car - boost / intercooler / brakes ( common theme/car here :shock: )


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by scimjim » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:17 pm

We don't need to be writing a set of tech regs for a "standard class" detailing what was original fitment on every single model - that's where we were 10 years ago and look at the problems it caused.


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by turbster » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:21 pm

Coupe' Racing wrote:There has been an lot of digging and research of other competitors series to bring this back into focus - why is our championship so hell bent on reverting back to the old problems and arguements that almost ruined it .

We have rules - thats it

Last point - the only way I see this that this can be clarified is this

CLASS

Standard
Road going with allowed mods per Blue Book
Mod Prod with allowed mods per Blue Book
Sports Libra
Agreed, but as for classes.. It is what it is (msa), and power to weight is the leveller for the SSSC. If a well prepared totally standard car driven by an experienced driver can't compete, then the handicap factor surely needs adjustment? Classes would just mean a return to the days of drivers being forced to remove items deemed non standard because they were beating everyone?? There's been none of that with the move to MSA regs (to my knowledge) so why spoil it?

If it's ok with the regs we run to, do it and lets just get on with promoting the SSSC for all the right reasons, in what looks like being a classic year 8)


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by Oaksey » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:23 pm

The problem I see is that there are no standard cars to run, so there would be no one in standard class anyway.


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by scimjim » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:40 pm

Oaksey wrote:The problem I see is that there are no standard cars to run, so there would be no one in standard class anyway.
You build your car to the regs, not vice-versa. It's a competition, not a track day.


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Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by Oaksey » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:44 pm

People who are thinking about sprinting will not want to make their car worse to sprint (partly the reason this debate started) in the same way they won't want to fit big brakes and tune the engine for more power.

I know of basically no Scimitars that are standard. The only one I can think of is Roger's mulberry car and I don't think he'll be sprinting that any time soon.


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by CNHSS1 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:00 pm

how about these classes for 2014?

RG
ModProd
Sports Libra
Cheshire Seperatists

CS class mandates minimum 350mm brakes F&R and 8 pot calipers, paint must dazzle a blind man at 30 paces, dash must have enough gauges to rival an airliner, and all race suits must be Hi-Vis. Race licences are not required for this class, but a written Risk assessment must be submitted for each event.

Any takers? :wink:


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by scimjim » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:01 pm

Oaksey wrote:People who are thinking about sprinting will not want to make their car worse to sprint (partly the reason this debate started) in the same way they won't want to fit big brakes and tune the engine for more power.
I don't understand this?

Let's not confuse the issue with "standard class" - it's not happening.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by Coupe Racing » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:40 pm

CNHSS1 wrote:how about these classes for 2014?

RG
ModProd
Sports Libra
Cheshire Seperatists

CS class mandates minimum 350mm brakes F&R and 8 pot calipers, paint must dazzle a blind man at 30 paces, dash must have enough gauges to rival an airliner, and all race suits must be Hi-Vis. Race licences are not required for this class, but a written Risk assessment must be submitted for each event.

Any takers? :wink:


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by Corky » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:52 pm

turbster wrote:
Agreed, but as for classes.. It is what it is (msa), and power to weight is the leveller for the SSSC. If a well prepared totally standard car driven by an experienced driver can't compete, then the handicap factor surely needs adjustment? Classes would just mean a return to the days of drivers being forced to remove items deemed non standard because they were beating everyone?? There's been none of that with the move to MSA regs (to my knowledge) so why spoil it?

If it's ok with the regs we run to, do it and lets just get on with promoting the SSSC for all the right reasons, in what looks like being a classic year 8)
:goodpost:

CNHSS1 wrote:how about these classes for 2014?

RG
ModProd
Sports Libra
Cheshire Seperatists

CS class mandates minimum 350mm brakes F&R and 8 pot calipers, paint must dazzle a blind man at 30 paces, dash must have enough gauges to rival an airliner, and all race suits must be Hi-Vis. Race licences are not required for this class, but a written Risk assessment must be submitted for each event.

Any takers? :wink:
:lol: :hand: :W


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Re: Big Brakes Road Going Series Production

Post by Oaksey » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:54 pm

scimjim wrote: "standard class" - it's not happening.
Sorry, I didn't realise it'd already gone through and been discussed/agreed by the committee and compies.


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