Croft 2 April 2018

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Post by Corky » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:29 pm

I’d have thought that there was insurance for that? Is that not a thing?


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Post by MikeyBikey » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:01 am

Has anyone examined the event regs to see what cancellation policy is?


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Post by CNHSS1 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:11 am

Corky wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:29 pm
I’d have thought that there was insurance for that? Is that not a thing?
I'm sure there is but I'm not aware of it


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Post by Nick » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:42 pm

As Craig say's check the small print.

I doubt you have any recourse, I have known clubs where there are problems like this give a reduced cost entry to an alternative event. This might be worth exploring.

I suspect both CM and SSSC would accept an alternative event if this was the case. Perhaps Steve Cox could look at this?


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Post by swoakes » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:27 pm

This gives you an idea of how wet it was



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Post by CNHSS1 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:43 pm

The choice to run was with the competitors not the organising club, there shouldn't be any recourse in my view. All were prepared to run the day before and make the journey and pay hotel & travelling expenses, and all to my knowledge ran in the given conditions, why would you look for a refund? I'm sorry but this isn't the organising clubs fault so why should they refund or discount subsequent entries? Take it on the chin and move on in my view

Motorsport is dangerous and crashes happen, thats the truth of it. If the risk is above what you are happy to take, leave it on the trailer

If we start pursuing clubs for refunds or asking CM for same it's a slippery slope in my view, but hey i wasnt there so feel free to ignore me :D


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Post by CNHSS1 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:44 pm

As my old Geordie boss used to say "throttle goes both ways you know!" After I'd spun my road car by driving too hard off a roundabout :lol:


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Post by Corky » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:31 pm

I would have carried on running if given the choice.

I suppose the argument for recompense is based on having paid for something that wasn’t delivered. Had this been a track day or driving experience day via a company, then a full or partial refund would’ve been expected. However this is club level stuff, so I doubt anyone would expect their money back, unless the club was insured against an unexpected cancellation.


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Post by Nick » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:06 pm

Craig,

Not quite sure what you’re argument is. Compies did not have the choice to run as the organisers cancelled the event during practice.

I would not expect any sort of refund,and was not suggesting it.


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Post by CNHSS1 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:21 pm

Nick Corky

My point is that the event was being run not cancelled when they got there, so the compies agreed to compete, hence no refund. The event being cancelled due to accidents/weather conditions subsequently is a separate matter. Once a competitor has started the event they have effectively entered into a contract of sale ie happy enough with the product or service offered to engage in competing in the given day, hence no recourse for a refund.

I think that Corkys point was that it should be been canceelld in advance of the start ie a day or two before, in which case pursuing for refunds would be a question to have asked.

If one is happy one start the event, you have agreed for them to take your money is how I would see it. I wouldn't want the forum, sssc or club to be seen to set a precedent where we chase organisers for refunds at every juncture.

With UK weather as it is, I can't see how organisers can predict the weather conditions 1 2 3 days prior, if the Met office can't!!

But hey whaddo I know :lol:


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Post by Nick » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:07 am

Craig,

I think we are Largely on the same page. Like you I have run in very wet events [ I also went off at Coombe a couple of years ago). I chose to accept the risk.

However, compies spend a lot of money on events and are entitled to expect a professional approach by organisers who have a duty of care as covered by the MSA.

As I was not there I accept this is pure speculation. Clearly the organisers considered the circuit safe to start practice. They cancelled the event after Dave,s off.if conditions had got worse, fair enough. If not, why was the event cancelled?


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Post by PeterSM » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:45 am

I have been following this thread with interest. I was there and the conditions were very poor. I was sitting on the line ready to go when Dave had his off. Dave's wasn't the first incident though it was the most serious so far. My view was that conditions had deteriorated with rain getting heavier and more laying water on the racing line. As I sat ready to go I could hear but not see drivers behind me complaining about conditions and asking for the event to be cancelled. One Marshal responded with "but the single seaters want to continue." There was obviously some discussion before the event was cancelled.
Unfortunately we live in a country with unpredictable weather.
I doubt if the organisers would have been able to get insurance at a realistic price.
I have some sympathy with the view that the event should have been cancelled earlier but that is with hindsight and I suspect the the organising club would have been left with significant costs possibly putting their future into question.
It is unfortunate for all involved that have spent time and money entering the event that it did not take place but remember these events are supported by many people who put in their time for very little or no reward.
If the event had carried on and a serious incident had happened it could have put the future of the sport we all enjoy in question.
At an event like this a call has to be made and I am afraid we have to live with that call as those making it are taking responsibility for all of us.
There are 24 further events available to competitors this year lets enjoy the safely.


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Post by turbster » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:51 am

That's Motorsport... I didn't get as far as scrutineering, but it is what it is, take it on the chin and move on. I think the main point regarding the question of cancellation before the event is that the organising club will have booked the circuit and everything else like Craig says, and there will be no refunds available there. They put these events on for US, and rely on the entries to pay the bills. For this reason I don't see why we shouldn't we accept some of the risk too?

Everyone could've cancelled 48hrs prior to the event and lost a £25 admin fee when it was widely known that snow/rain/freezing temperatures were forecast all day, but like the organisers they didn't and took a risk the weather forecast would improve.


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Post by CNHSS1 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:12 am

The organisers don't have the ability to cancel the meeting on the day without consultation and agreement of the MSA Steward (head honcho on the day) Clerk of the Course, deputies etc.
If the MSA considered the track safe (and they would've inspected it), then it was safe to compete on. If the organisers were then to overrule and cancel the event they would be held accountable by our governing body, the MSA. As understand it the organisers put on the event but ultimate safety call is MSAs on the day

It's all regrettable with hindsight, but we are all adults and make our own call on safety levels and risk, don't think we should look to others to move blame or liability.


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Post by Corky » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:16 am

It’s certainly an unusual set of circumstances. I remain peed off that the call wasn’t made a day earlier, but hey ho I’ll get over at it as soon as I turn the ignition key at the next event :D :D :D


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