Aintree 25 May 2013 - Track Day

Moderators: scimjim, philhoward, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington, Lukeyboy46, nickkeyser

User avatar
swoakes
RSSOC Member
Posts: 6552
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:23 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Aintree 25 May 2013 - Track Day

Post by swoakes » Sat May 25, 2013 3:39 pm

Just returned from Aintree having done my first track day. Some video to follow. Very enjoyable I useful practice for the Sprint in June. Oh and Craig you would have been proud of me; major off leaving the first right hander at the end of the first session and ended up on the grass of the golf course :shock:

Highlighted a few issues with the Sabre; after 10 minutes the brakes were on the edge out on track and after the slow return to the paddock they were non existent :shock: Pedal was to the floor and took some time to come back. We actually missed the last run of the morning due to this issue combined with a misfire caused by what we believe was a cooked dizzy (schoolboy error of not lifting bonnet after a run :roll: :oops: ). We may have a look at providing a heatshield for the dizzy and maybe remove the brake disc guards to aid cooling. All advice welcome :wink:

A few other issues since Curbs and today; speedo is now very erratic, passenger window not working and oil gurgling out from the base of the gearlever at high speed :? oh and I need to make a new scoop for the intercooler :roll:

Most worrying is a crunch going into 3rd gear going both up and down in any spirited fashion. Normal driving no issue. Syncro gone :?: First thoughts are run it for the rest of the season and live with it and fit a new box and clutch over winter. Thoughts :?:


Steve Oakes
SS1 DET Sprint Car

Former cars
SS1 DET Turbo sprint Project
Sabre Ti
SS1 Ti
1971 Yellow 5a
1985 SS1 1600
1978 Green/Silver 6a

Image
"Fail to prepare and you are preparing to fail."
Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 23923
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 515 times
Contact:

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by philhoward » Sat May 25, 2013 3:52 pm

Try an oil change on the box? If its having a gurgle (which doesn't sound good), is that pressure not escaping from heat build up? Next step will be spitting it out anywhere it can - prop seal (Corky knows that one) or possibly even sending oil up the speedo cable (could be connected..).

ISTR Craig mentioning something about a gearbox breather - could it be blocked (off)?

Need some sort of ducting to them brakes! A Track day (and a test day for that matter - and double driven) will test the stock ones to the max. I'm not a fan of the "stone guards" but you could use them to your advantage and incorporate a duct (or even just bent them back - like the intercooler scoop :w ) to try and get some airflow in there.

Did the brakes come back as they were after cooling down? Otherwise the pads will be granite/toast..

All IMHO, of course..


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

User avatar
Corky
RSSOC Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Macclesfield
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 128 times

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by Corky » Sat May 25, 2013 3:56 pm

Maybe add some ducting as well as removing the shields ?

I had the crunch thing on the SS1, but that was due to the engine revs not dropping quickly enough on the up change. The dump valve sorted that problem. Is your dump valve OK ? Did you break it at curbs :lol:

Looks like Phil beast to some of that. Bloody slow Greek WiFi :lol:


Steve
Current:- SS1 Ti RG sprint car. VW Touareg 3.0 V6
Prev:- Sabre Ti, 3xSS1 Ti, SS1 16v Turbo Racer, 5XGTC, 2XSE6B, 2XSE5A, 2XV6 Coupe, Sabre 6
Project Threads & YouTube

“It's not the winning, it's the taking apart that counts"

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 23923
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 515 times
Contact:

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by philhoward » Sat May 25, 2013 3:57 pm

Try GPRS in rural Germany; swap you for some flaky Greek hotel speed!


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

User avatar
Corky
RSSOC Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Macclesfield
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 128 times

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by Corky » Sat May 25, 2013 4:07 pm

philhoward wrote:Try GPRS in rural Germany; swap you for some flaky Greek hotel speed!
:lol: Nah you're OK.....




A bit more.. Just been handed a G&T :mrgreen:

Its 6pm here. BTW.

Oh yes, the car..

The speedo cable takes a bit if an awkward route due to the lowered floor on that Sabre, maybe its beginning to fail due to internal friction ?

The box was pretty leak proof in my ownership, but you have thrashed it much more than I did (good effort :lol: ). I suppose the extra heat of constant lapping and 50 extra ponies are going to take their toll. Does GW have any S12 boxes left ? Is it difficult to fit an S13 (something I'm interested in doing myself).


Steve
Current:- SS1 Ti RG sprint car. VW Touareg 3.0 V6
Prev:- Sabre Ti, 3xSS1 Ti, SS1 16v Turbo Racer, 5XGTC, 2XSE6B, 2XSE5A, 2XV6 Coupe, Sabre 6
Project Threads & YouTube

“It's not the winning, it's the taking apart that counts"

User avatar
reliant-reviver
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4557
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:05 pm
Location: Beighton, Sheffield
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 103 times

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by reliant-reviver » Sat May 25, 2013 4:15 pm

Are they solid or vented discs on your car? When did they last get treated to some love?

I lopped the bottom half off my backplates and folded the front half out as far as possible (hits ARB links on full lock eventually) and it does seem to help. In this case it's on a light 1600 with knackered solid discs and no nose cone, so not quite the same story.


Philip Andrew.
'74 Robin Super Saloon, '84 SS1 1300, '86 SS1 1800ti, '87 SS1 1300
Previous: I lost count around fifty.

User avatar
CNHSS1
RSSOC Member
Posts: 13832
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:13 pm
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Has thanked: 211 times
Been thanked: 208 times
Contact:

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by CNHSS1 » Sat May 25, 2013 4:16 pm

the sabre was mssing the rubber gasket seal above the lever whch sits under the other rubber lver to tunnel gaiter and then the leatherette oem one.

if the rubber gaiter seals fitted that should help.

drain box oil, refill with cheap crap oil and ru for one event/few road miles then drop oil again and refill with Redline Heavy Duty shockproof. if that doesnt help its synchro rings


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
Image

User avatar
CNHSS1
RSSOC Member
Posts: 13832
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:13 pm
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Has thanked: 211 times
Been thanked: 208 times
Contact:

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by CNHSS1 » Sat May 25, 2013 4:18 pm

s13 or 14 box fitment covered on here loads.
s13 is identical ratios to ss1 so no point/advantage

basics- gear lever position 65mm further back-need to cut tunnel
propshaft needs to be 50mm shorter.

speedo wont work from either box


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
Image

User avatar
CNHSS1
RSSOC Member
Posts: 13832
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:13 pm
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Has thanked: 211 times
Been thanked: 208 times
Contact:

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by CNHSS1 » Sat May 25, 2013 4:23 pm

trackdays and circuit racings all about about huge brakes-polar opposite to sprints/hills.

big brake discs, vented, big pref ally calipers and big pad area is required, anything else is a compromise imho

As for your off Steve, good work fella :-) i will send your club membership card in the post lol


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
Image

User avatar
swoakes
RSSOC Member
Posts: 6552
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:23 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by swoakes » Sat May 25, 2013 4:26 pm

reliant-reviver wrote:Are they solid or vented discs on your car? When did they last get treated to some love?

I lopped the bottom half off my backplates and folded the front half out as far as possible (hits ARB links on full lock eventually) and it does seem to help. In this case it's on a light 1600 with knackered solid discs and no nose cone, so not quite the same story.
Solid original discs phil (I'm in road-going you know :wink: )


Steve Oakes
SS1 DET Sprint Car

Former cars
SS1 DET Turbo sprint Project
Sabre Ti
SS1 Ti
1971 Yellow 5a
1985 SS1 1600
1978 Green/Silver 6a

Image
"Fail to prepare and you are preparing to fail."
Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
Corky
RSSOC Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Macclesfield
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 128 times

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by Corky » Sat May 25, 2013 4:28 pm

CNHSS1 wrote:s13 or 14 box fitment covered on here loads.
s13 is identical ratios to ss1 so no point/advantage

basics- gear lever position 65mm further back-need to cut tunnel
propshaft needs to be 50mm shorter.

speedo wont work from either box
I thought S13 had a taller 1st gear ? Seem to remember Stew B mentioning it. I could be wrong, dreamt it or misheard it though :roll:

Only considering it as S12 boxes seem thin on the ground, and I thought the taller 1st gear (if it exists) would be a benefit off the line.


Steve
Current:- SS1 Ti RG sprint car. VW Touareg 3.0 V6
Prev:- Sabre Ti, 3xSS1 Ti, SS1 16v Turbo Racer, 5XGTC, 2XSE6B, 2XSE5A, 2XV6 Coupe, Sabre 6
Project Threads & YouTube

“It's not the winning, it's the taking apart that counts"

User avatar
swoakes
RSSOC Member
Posts: 6552
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:23 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by swoakes » Sat May 25, 2013 4:37 pm

philhoward wrote:Try an oil change on the box? If its having a gurgle (which doesn't sound good), is that pressure not escaping from heat build up? Next step will be spitting it out anywhere it can - prop seal (Corky knows that one) or possibly even sending oil up the speedo cable (could be connected..).

ISTR Craig mentioning something about a gearbox breather - could it be blocked (off)?

Need some sort of ducting to them brakes! A Track day (and a test day for that matter - and double driven) will test the stock ones to the max. I'm not a fan of the "stone guards" but you could use them to your advantage and incorporate a duct (or even just bent them back - like the intercooler scoop :w ) to try and get some airflow in there.

Did the brakes come back as they were after cooling down? Otherwise the pads will be granite/toast..

All IMHO, of course..
We first noticed the gearbox oil gurgling up at curbs yesterday. Seemed to be speed related being worse on the long straight. It also spits oil out inside the car a bit :shock: As Craig mentioned its missing its rubber seal and has no gaiter otherwise you wouldn't know it was doing it.

I'll have a look at the brakes re ducting etc and will probably bleed them and put some better road/ race pads in (greenstuff at present). Brakes did seem to return Ok but maybe not quite as good as before :?


Steve Oakes
SS1 DET Sprint Car

Former cars
SS1 DET Turbo sprint Project
Sabre Ti
SS1 Ti
1971 Yellow 5a
1985 SS1 1600
1978 Green/Silver 6a

Image
"Fail to prepare and you are preparing to fail."
Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 35483
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 795 times

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by scimjim » Sat May 25, 2013 4:49 pm

that box had new oil just before I sold it to Steve C, so hasn't done any real mileage. If it's the box, I have various spare ones available.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
swoakes
RSSOC Member
Posts: 6552
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:23 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by swoakes » Sat May 25, 2013 5:05 pm

scimjim wrote:that box had new oil just before I sold it to Steve C, so hasn't done any real mileage. If it's the box, I have various spare ones available.
Cheers Jim; I'll certainly consider any known good box that you have :wink:


Steve Oakes
SS1 DET Sprint Car

Former cars
SS1 DET Turbo sprint Project
Sabre Ti
SS1 Ti
1971 Yellow 5a
1985 SS1 1600
1978 Green/Silver 6a

Image
"Fail to prepare and you are preparing to fail."
Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
CNHSS1
RSSOC Member
Posts: 13832
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:13 pm
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Has thanked: 211 times
Been thanked: 208 times
Contact:

Re: Aintree Track Day

Post by CNHSS1 » Sat May 25, 2013 5:09 pm

s14 has taller 1st and shorter 5th as per Batmobile.
s13 has ss1 ratios


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Events”