Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

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drcdb15
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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by drcdb15 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:48 pm

In drawing Q4 of the MB parts list, the hatch hinges are parts 11 and 13, of which 13 is called the 'adjuster'. There is no part number given for the long transverse bar which carries the hinge pins (though this is shown in the GTE parts list as R-part 211596, item 10 in Section Q3).

My question is: how does one eliminate end-play on these hinges?

I have about 30mm of play on the hatch, from side to side, which seems way beyond the capacity of the 'adjuster's to accommodate. Is this normal? In the past (with POs) this sloppiness has led to trashing of the hatch seal at the sides, getting nipped by the gas struts.

Are the adjusters handed, and have been swapped over?

I have searched the Forum but can find nothing of relevance. There seems to be no mechanism for any sort of centralisation or adjustment other than loosen the screws, squeeze everything together as hard as you can, tighten screws.

Any suggestions? Thanks


Chris
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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by scimjim » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:43 pm

It’s identical to all other GTEs - 13 is fixed to the hatch but has slotted holes (screws 15) which allow the other half of the hinge (11) to be moved to butt up to the end of the transverse bar (which is glassed into the roof).


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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by drcdb15 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:06 pm

I was afraid you were going to say that :(

I note on some earlier diagrams (SE5?) it looks as though the hinge ends are threaded and there are nuts and washers, so I think I will take the hinges apart, after careful measurement of course, and try shimming them on the inner faces. A couple of mm end float is OK, but I'm sure +/- 20mm can't be right. It's certainly not done the seal any favours.

Thanks as always for your help :D


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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by scimjim » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:19 pm

Hinge bracket (11) has threaded holes for screws (15).I've seen washers on the rod before to take up lateral play.

Some poor pics of an exposed hinge here


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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by drcdb15 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:47 pm

Thanks for that. My hinges came apart no bother, in fact they're a lot more easily accessible than you'd think, that's quite a big hole in the ceiling! I exaggerated - the total end float is only 12.2mm as far as I can measure with the vernier. So say I shim each end by 7mm or so, that'll put the hinges pretty well near the centre of their adjustment range. Only issue is, I need 7mm ID washers, and what's the one size I don't have on the shelf ? Ho hum, off to eBay... just talk amongst yourselves...


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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by scimjim » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:59 pm

Or some thick walled tube with 7mm ID cut to length?


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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by philhoward » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:31 am

7mm seems an odd size - I’m guessing the pin is actually 1/4”?


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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by drcdb15 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:04 am

philhoward wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:31 am
7mm seems an odd size - I’m guessing the pin is actually 1/4”?
No, I don't think it can be. I didn't measure the hinge rod itself (no reason, I just didn't), I measured the ID of the hinge (11) which was about 7+/- mm, and of some washers I had to hand which were around 6.8-6.9mm. However, whilst a 6.5mm drill bit was sloppy in the hinge (11), a 7mm bit wouldn't go in. Equally the washers would not fit over the end of the hinge rod - oh so close, but not quite. Which is why I plumped for 7mm washers to shim. 8mm would do course, but I just wanted to get it as tight as possible - if possible. It seems 7mm washers (and other fittings) are quite widely used on Lambrettas and other scooters, must be an Italian thing :D

Anyway, although most suppliers do M6 then M8, it was easy enough to find M7 in A2 stainless on eBay, so I've ordered 20 for about £1.80.

So, given what I've said, the hinge rod must be somewhere around 6.9mm dia, so appreciably thicker than 1/4 inch.


Chris
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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by drcdb15 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:46 pm

Well my 7mm washers arrived yesterday, so today in the dry I got this hinge alignment issue sorted. Pictures are self explanatory I guess. As predicted, the shimming on each side together with the play inherent in the adjusters allowed me to lock up the hinge with no play at all, so I then backed it off a tad, to give maybe 0.5-1mm end float. Everything was greased before assembly but I wanted to leave a bit of slack in case of any misalignment between the two hinge pins - obviously with them being glassed into the roof there's no easy way to check they haven't been bent slightly. But all seems OK, and now the hatch drops pretty much dead square into the catch opening. It took several attempts and blind faith to get the hinge interior shots as there is almost no way to do any of this except with mirrors (a bit of smoke would probably help too !) but you can see they are painted and no sign of rust which is reassuring. I think I might replace the huge Philips screws on the adjusters with Allen screws in the fullness of time, being neater and getting a higher torque - the Philips screw heads are starting to get a bit chewed now, confirming my suspicions that this window has been messed around with more than it should have been.

The M7 washers measure nom 7.4-7.5mm ID, and are a fairly close fit on the hinge pin as you can see. I'd be wary about trying to use anything of larger outside diameter. The photos show there is plenty of space around the forward and upper areas of the hinge pin, but it is actually quite close to the bodywork towards the rear, so a larger OD washer may foul and not sit squarely on the hinge pin.
Hatch hinges refurb 20190621 05.JPG
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Hatch hinges refurb 20190621 01.JPG (202.54 KiB) Viewed 1094 times


Chris
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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by drcdb15 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:13 pm

Quick question - would the rear hatch fitting on the frame normally go the underside of the black hinge plate (when the glass is closed) or on the top side? Or does it not matter?

As per first photo, mine has always been fitted on the underside, but now I come to fitting a new seal I find the hatch is very loose to the bodywork at the bottom, and very tight at the top. As shown by the second photo, the adjustment holes are at their limit leaving me no scope to move the top of the glass further away from the bodywork. Is this yet another PO mal-fitting?

Thanks.
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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by drcdb15 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:52 pm

I've now tried fitting the hinge on the other side of the frame, and it certainly moves the top of the frame away from the bodywork, so that's looking promising for giving me more adjustment. However, the bad news is this:
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I don't know whether I want to hear this is normal or not! Obviously the original holes have been opened out to offer adjustment, but again, was this how the car was first supplied, or is this more evidence that this hatch is not the original one?


Chris
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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by scimjim » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:46 pm

You’re right, you don’t want to know :D


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
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Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by drcdb15 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:30 pm

scimjim wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:46 pm
You’re right, you don’t want to know :D
True :cry: However, I would like to know if it matters which side of the hinge the frame goes. It was only after messing around with it all for ages that it suddenly struck me, why have shiny domed nuts and shiny screen frame/bracket, if you then sit it all behind a piece of black industrial grade iron girder ?


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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by scimjim » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:10 pm

Not sure if that hinge was originally black on the Middlebridge but it is chromed on Reliants.


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Align/adjust hinges of rear hatch/tailgate

Post by Roger Pennington » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:30 pm

Maybe that was one of the "400 improvements"...... ?


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