Bogging at 4000 rpm

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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by philhoward » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:18 pm

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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by DARK STAR » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:37 pm

Many thanks, I'll have a look at all that tomorrow.


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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by greeny » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:35 pm

If you disconnect the cables.from the idle controle valve (pic above) the car should not idle. Terraclean is a trade name but one I have used and have had great results with.
And all the rest as above!!


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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by AJL Electronics » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:08 am

Yes it should idle if set up correctly. That is the number one error with the 2.9i because owners mistakenly adjust the throttle plates. The procedure is clearly detailed in the Ford workshop manual.

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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by DARK STAR » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:56 pm

Only done about 10 km today, too busy working.

I did try disconnecting the idle control valve, expecting dire consequences.
But the revs dropped instantly to 900 and stayed there, no more lumpy than idling at 1100 rpm.
I hadn't time to take the car out again so tried revving in the garage, it still goes (gently) to 4200 rpm.
What purpose does the idle control valve serve and what effect could it have on running at higher revs?

I also had a quick look at the throttle position sensor.
It has a pipe blanked off, is this normal?
In any case, it has always been like that :roll:

I note with shame that the underside of the engine bits are not very clean :oops:
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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by AJL Electronics » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:11 pm

The ISCV allows the computer to raise the idle speed in response to load changes. It looks like your base idle setting is too high as it should be about 700RPM. There could be a reason for that like an air leak of course, or someone may have fiddled with the throttle plate settings. You would expect to get an error code 12 in the latter case.

The blanked pipe is a vacuum feed that would go to the fuel regulator, MAP if it has one or the modulator on an auto box. Strange that it has been blanked like that though and it would make me suspicious of tinkering.

Better image of Procedure for setting is here: http://granada-and-scorpio.com/phpbb/vi ... ?f=5&t=526 near the end of page one.


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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by DARK STAR » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:43 pm

Load changes at idle?
Bizarre. On an auto 'box yes, because it drags when put in drive but how can the load change on a manual?
In any case when not under load 8) surely it should turn at the lowest speed, not the highest?
If I run the car without the idle control valve connected what will happen?

The blanked pipe is easily explained in fact, the engine was brand new from Middlebridge (receivers)
but the injection all came off a Scorpio which may well have had an auto box, they mostly did.
That was the best deal I ever did, bought a rear-end write off, removed what I needed for the new engine and sold the remains for the same price!

None of which gets me any further.
Thanks for the link Andy, I'll have to study that.


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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by scimjim » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:32 pm

DARK STAR wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:56 pm
What purpose does the idle control valve serve and what effect could it have on running at higher revs?
It adjusts the idle in response to electrical load and temp changes.

It can give a poor idle, cutting out at idle, or a very high idle - won't have anything to do with your problem.


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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by scimjim » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:34 pm



Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by AJL Electronics » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:36 pm

I wonder if there is a clue in the origin of the engine? Can you give me the part number of the ECU? It will probably start 86GB-


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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by scimjim » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:57 pm

Going right back to the start, it felt like a rev limiter came in at 4000rpm (classic low fuel pressure (pump or filter) or ignition problem).

You replaced the air filter and spark plugs and it became worse low down and now wouldn't go over 3500 - indicating the air filter or plugs weren't to blame so possibly it's just just that the original problem is getting worse.

Injector cleaner seems to be improving matters (remember that it is in the tank, so it is cleaning everything in the fuel system)

Fuel pump, filter and fuel pump relay were all replaced recently - was this to cure a fault or just because? Edit - IIRC this was to cure the non-starting which was eventually traced to the relay? You did dizzy cap and rotor arm as they were corroded - that was 4 years ago.

Anything else done to the car recently (anything on ignition system - dizzy, leads, plugs, anything at all to do with the camshafts?)


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SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by greeny » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:15 pm

Chris did say that the car hasn't been used a lot recently which will lead to the fuel system gluing up, this being the case injector cleaner will clean the whole system (including the jets in the injectors) allowing fuel to flow better. I had the self same issue on mine for years I did alsorts including injector cleaners and my trip to ric wood nothing worked. But the terraclean stopped it, I do realise it's just an injector cleaner but it is a really strong one. My mot tester is a real tech geek but no fool, for him to shell out on the kit and franchise he must be positive it works!


Babe the GTC number 229 and and Smurfett the 1400 SST. Ness the vw t4 van/dayvan/camper
Previous 3.0v6 X type jaguar triumph acclaim scimitar SE4A 663 (ex Collin Watson coupe) 2x se5a's 2x SS1 1600s and a load.of other things I can't remember!!!
GTC drivers doing it under canvas since 1981!!

Website scimitargtc.co.uk
12601 14846 18/09/12

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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by DARK STAR » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:49 pm

Nothing touched recently and nothing is likely to be worn out with the kilometrage I do :lol:
I think lack of use is certainly the cause of the problem - but I am notorious for drawing the wrong conclusion from obvious evidence :oops:
I must try to do a decent drive to blow the crud out.
I looked at Terraclean's site, apparently they have specific machines which force the product into every nook and cranny.
There are, amazingly, Terraclean centres in France but the only one anywhere near here is a diesel specialist (what a surprise).
They have announced do-it-yourself products but they are not yet available here.


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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by AJL Electronics » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:31 pm

Without a fault code read you are just working in the dark.


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Bogging at 4000 rpm

Post by greeny » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:08 pm

Fault code reader isn't going to pick up dirty injectors the ecu isn't that complex.


Babe the GTC number 229 and and Smurfett the 1400 SST. Ness the vw t4 van/dayvan/camper
Previous 3.0v6 X type jaguar triumph acclaim scimitar SE4A 663 (ex Collin Watson coupe) 2x se5a's 2x SS1 1600s and a load.of other things I can't remember!!!
GTC drivers doing it under canvas since 1981!!

Website scimitargtc.co.uk
12601 14846 18/09/12

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