Sabre Six exhaust system

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Sabre Six exhaust system

Post by Old and Slow » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:22 pm

Here's a query for Tony or Dave Poole, or any other Sabre/Sabra knowledgeable member;
Talking to the mechanic for the Drabbles Sabre Six at the Silverstone Classic I commented on them still using the cast manifold, apparently this is to meet scrutineering requirements. I pointed out that 660 XYB has a branch manifold which I believe was part of the original factory mods, so I'm asking If we in the Club could assist and provide documentary proof that a branch manifold wasn't out of period.
In Don Pither's "Reliant Sports Cars" on page 57 is an engine with the factory mods - Raymond Mays head, triple webers and a branch manifold. Can anyone date this photograph, or provide documentation verifying this as an "in-period" fit? If we can, Simon Drabble will be "my best friend for life" (his words!)
They are aware that '60's Zodiacs were using this arrangement in competition, but can't prove it was used on the Sabre Six.
Can we help?
Here they are in the National Paddock this morning:
361WYD.jpg
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Sabre Six exhaust system

Post by chrisgallacher » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:54 am

Philip, can't answer your specific query about the manifolds I'm afraid but this might be of some interest. It's from a very early Slice, written by Robin Rew about HSCC eligibility for Sabre Sixes with Mays Heads. Seems the Sabres were encountering scrutineering problems in the 1970s too.

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Sabre Six exhaust system

Post by reliant-reviver » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:00 am

"Devoid of flares"

Suppose that's why GTE drivers were never permitted at such events! :lol:


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Post by Nick » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:54 am

Car looked good and went pretty well. Did look as if a bit more grunt would help. Does seem at bit strange, why would you change head etc and not exhaust in period?


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Post by AllingtonGT » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:09 am

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Post by Old and Slow » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:36 am

Thanks for all the feedback so far;
Nick - my copy of the Sabre Six FIA paperwork from May 1963 shows the same arrangement as fitted to 361WYD, two short horizontal three-into-one manifolds, which also appear in the period advertisements I have for the Raymond Mays head.
Chris - as Robin Rew's article didn't specifically mention the exhaust arrangement a branch system might be possible. Perhaps if Dave Poole or anyone else can find any period photos showing a branch manifold?
Otherwise this might be a dead duck.
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Sabre Six exhaust system

Post by DavePoole » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:45 pm

Hi,

I know that the Sabre Sprint (876 HWD) certainly had tubular manifolds when it was built as I have pictures of it being built at the factory as well as this one with tax disc in window showing 1965.

I have another photo of a works Sabre 6 with cast manifolds though. Then I found this picture of one the of the crashed works cars with tubular manifolds, so I'll have to do a bit more digging for you.

Dave Poole :D
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Post by chrisgallacher » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:59 pm

So is that top one 649 GUE after it crashed on the 1964 Monte?

If so that photo can be dated accurately and as a Works car it clearly shows it was fitted with a tubular manifold in period by the factory - and indeed competed by the factory in this spec. Top work that man!


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Post by Old and Slow » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:20 pm

I'm getting quite excited, this "detective" stuff is better than Hercule Poirot!
The photographs are fantastic, wonderful detail, and with DCOE45s fitted. 660XYB has the same drip tray/heat shield under the Webers. Well done, Dave.
Based on Robin Rew's Note above, I imagine the evidence will need to be submitted to the FIA. Something for Simon Drabble's team to address, I think.
Once again, thanks for digging into this.
Philip N


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Post by scimjim » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:41 pm

Strange that the 1963 FIA papers clearly show the standard manifold?


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Post by chrisgallacher » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:27 pm

scimjim wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:41 pm
Strange that the 1963 FIA papers clearly show the standard manifold?
Yep agreed, particularly as the standard Mays cast manifolds are generally accepted to be pretty lousy and noticeably inferior to a decent tubular system.


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Post by DavePoole » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:50 pm

Here's one of the works Sabres fitted with a cast manifold. I'm guessing they started off with cast manifolds in the early days, hence the cast manifolds being shown on the FIA paper in 1963. I believe the engines were later a bit more tuned and perhaps that's when they fitted with tubular manifolds?

Dave :D
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Post by DavePoole » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:51 pm

Again, here's the chassis of 876 HWD at the Reliant factory with a tubular manifold
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Post by Old and Slow » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:26 pm

According to TSAIF HWD is the lightweight that was intended for the 1963 Le Mans, so if your photo is a period factory shot, then we have the answer, don't we?
Its a wild guess on my part (reading between the lines of TSAIF) but perhaps the 1963 Alpine Rally Class-winning cars were fitted with tubular manifolds for the Spa-Sofia-Liege marathon. My FIA papers are for Chassis 300112 when it was homologated for the Alpine.


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Post by scimjim » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:41 pm

homologation forms are usually updated as mods are approved. The Sabre Six (chassis numbers 001 & 112) papers have various amendments - but nothing about the exhaust. Of course, BL (Ford, Hillman & others) found out in 1966 how anal the FIA could be so maybe everyone was paying a bit of lip service to the FIA papers until then?


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