Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Moderators: scimjim, philhoward, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington, Lukeyboy46

Electron
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:52 pm

Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by Electron » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:25 pm

Hi

So it's a bit unfair me dipping in and out of the Forum once every blue moon so I did hit the "Donate" button before posting this one.

So I'm still gently collecting bits for my Zephyr Six engine - I have the triple SU manifold, carbs and exhaust manifold. The gearbox I'm using is a Mk3 with a Ford Transit gearchange !! Whilst I see the Mays heads did make it out into the wide world I had to have some chassis rails made so will have to stick with an iron one for the time being.

I have a 1300cc precrossflow engine (a funny one with a five bearing crank) and couldn't help notice the pistons bear a remarkable similarity to the Zephyr Six.

I have some brand new 85mm AE 18953 flat top precrossflow pistons sat in a box and on first inspection they would appear to fit the six.

Can anyone comment on what pistons to use in an iron headed triple SU engine please ??

Thanks

Chris



User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 19013
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 432 times

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by Roger Pennington » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:55 pm

Hi, good to hear the project is still on-going, and thanks for the donation :D

I'm not an expert on the straight six engine, but my dusty memory cells seem to suggest that "back in the day" Robin Rew used to use Volvo pistons in his race engine? Hopefully one of the experts will add more detail. :)

HTH


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

User avatar
Oaksey
RSSOC Member
Posts: 5396
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:45 pm
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by Oaksey » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:20 pm

Standard P1800 pistons fit a +60 S6 block perfectly.
I haven't found any pistons that'll fit a standard block so I reused my pistons as I couldn't find any NOS ones either.
There's a couple of zodiac suppliers that might have some now or Iain Daniels may be able to help like he did with the rings for mine :)


Josh Oakes
2015, 2016 and 2017 SSSC Champion
1974 Yellow Se5a Overdrive
1987 White SS1 Ti
1971 Blue Jaguar XJ6
1966 Blue Coupe Straight Six x2
Previous- SS1 Ti, SE6a x3, SE5 Auto, SS1 CVH, Mk2 Sabre, Rebel Estate

Electron
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by Electron » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:03 pm

Thanks for this - standard Ford +40 pistons seem to be readily available at a similar price to the P1800s -I was wondering what a reasonable overbore is as well - looks like +60 is easy. The engine is only likely to do a thousand miles or so a year maximum ....



User avatar
heathsabre
RSSOC Member
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:10 am
Location: Orpington
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 9 times
Contact:

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by heathsabre » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:42 pm

As a matter of interest when we had our engine rebuilt (by Iain Daniels) it was found to have standard pistons and cylinder liners. We reused the standard pistons with new rings and fitted new liners. After 4 years and 10,000 miles all is well.


Regards
Tony & Jaki Heath
RSSOC Sabre Registrars

1964 Sabre Six GT
1963 Sabre Six convertible
1960 Sabra prototype

gtcse8
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:11 am
Location: Steeton, Yorkshire Dales
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by gtcse8 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:12 pm

Quick look at the Hepolite / AE bible says the part number is 19299 v1, was 17308, or 19299.
Also fitted to Transit, Corsaire, Industrial engine and Zephyr 1663cc , 2495cc 4/6 cylinder engine


See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s, GTC, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

Electron
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by Electron » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:35 pm

I thought the Transit had a V4 with chamber in pistons as did the Corsair (or a 1500 precrossflow) ?

Now looking for some Volvo pistons as +60 seems to get me to a reasonable compression ratio ...



User avatar
toomanysabres
RIP
Posts: 5388
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Leatherhead
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by toomanysabres » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:11 pm

Volvo std pistons part number 19749 fit a 0.060" bore. The gudgeon pin is very slightly smaller than a Ford piston. In my Sabre 4 years ago they had to use 5 bushes as one of them was already too large for reaming to size. But that's not much of an issue.


Now: '62 Sabre 4, '63 Sabre Six, '65 SE4, '00 BMW E38 740i sport.
Prev: '53 ZephyrZodiac, '64 Sabra GT, '68 Elan S3SE, Mk3 Cortina 2000GXL, Mk4 Cortina 2000 Est, 3 SE6a's, 2 SE5a, SE4a Turbo, 1800Ti.
Company: Cav SRi, Cav SRi 130, Honda Concerto 1.6 (yuk)

gtcse8
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:11 am
Location: Steeton, Yorkshire Dales
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by gtcse8 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:07 pm

No, the quoted parts are for Straight Four or Six engines only.

As originally fitted to Mk3 Zodiac as the original request for info was.

Don`t know why I bother.


See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s, GTC, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

User avatar
chrisgallacher
RSSOC Member
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:01 pm
Location: Four Marks, Hants
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by chrisgallacher » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:16 am

gtcse8 wrote: Also fitted to Transit, Corsaire, Industrial engine and Zephyr 1663cc , 2495cc 4/6 cylinder engine
These are V4 and V6 engines. I don't think the pistons fit the 2553cc straight six Zephyr engine as used in the Sabre Six/Coupe.


Chris Gallacher
RSSOC Rally Secretary

gtcse8
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:11 am
Location: Steeton, Yorkshire Dales
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by gtcse8 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:00 am

Sorry Chris but the Catalogue lists the part numbers as Straight 4 and 6 engines.

This must mean that Hepolite/AE who made them for Ford got it wrong.

Mark


See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s, GTC, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 23360
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 460 times
Contact:

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by philhoward » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:07 am

Wouldn't be the first time parts catalogues got confused over the years and various re-writes..


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

User avatar
toomanysabres
RIP
Posts: 5388
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Leatherhead
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by toomanysabres » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:09 pm

V engine pistons are 93.67 dia and straight engines are 82.55 dia so no way are they the same. Also V has combustion chamber in the piston and straights are flat.


Now: '62 Sabre 4, '63 Sabre Six, '65 SE4, '00 BMW E38 740i sport.
Prev: '53 ZephyrZodiac, '64 Sabra GT, '68 Elan S3SE, Mk3 Cortina 2000GXL, Mk4 Cortina 2000 Est, 3 SE6a's, 2 SE5a, SE4a Turbo, 1800Ti.
Company: Cav SRi, Cav SRi 130, Honda Concerto 1.6 (yuk)

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 34298
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 110 times
Been thanked: 708 times

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by scimjim » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:11 pm

Could they have mixed mk3 & mk4 Zodiacs?


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
toomanysabres
RIP
Posts: 5388
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Leatherhead
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: Pistons in a Mk3 Zodiac Block

Post by toomanysabres » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:13 pm

Highly likely I would think.


Now: '62 Sabre 4, '63 Sabre Six, '65 SE4, '00 BMW E38 740i sport.
Prev: '53 ZephyrZodiac, '64 Sabra GT, '68 Elan S3SE, Mk3 Cortina 2000GXL, Mk4 Cortina 2000 Est, 3 SE6a's, 2 SE5a, SE4a Turbo, 1800Ti.
Company: Cav SRi, Cav SRi 130, Honda Concerto 1.6 (yuk)

Post Reply

Return to “Early Sabre”