Recasting Mays Heads ?

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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by CNHSS1 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:13 pm

J55 JGL wrote:HI
Yes Iain Daniels is in the middle of putting a package together
cheers John
Hmmm, find that odd, since JGL and Iain work together.


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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by Sabre27 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:59 pm

Hi All,

Just to add my penny’s worth, having just gone through the process for 361 WYD in order to meet the FIA regs a second-hand Mays Head which in most cases will require re-machining etc etc will set you back around £2500 - £3000 (including the machining which is almost as costly as the head its self). It might sound allot and that might depend on what you want to achieve, if you want FIA papers there is no option really other than iron head single SU (No choice then).

If anyone is interested then I would wait as Iain is along way down the road of recasting Mays Heads, and may possibly have them available early next year??

In my view Sabres are worth investing in as they are such a rare car and the more we all invest in them (easier said than done I know) the more they are likely to go up in value.

Merry Christmas to you all!

Regards

Neil.
Ps hope to have some video’s of Spa on you tube soon



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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by geoffp67 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:29 pm

plus if you do buy a mays head, it can always be sold later, keep the standard head tucked away somewhere



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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by Electron » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:16 pm

Interesting ... not sure where the breakdown in communication happened and glad I haven't had the iron head reworked yet I'll hold fire for 6 months.

I did find the team in New Zealand recasting the triple SU manifold, rocker box cover and alloy engine plates ..

http://www.restospares.co.nz/bc_equip.htm



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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by Sabre27 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:26 pm

Again It might be worth speaking to Iain in the New Year he’s also had made alloy rocker covers, and upgraded manifolds, sadly I’ve had to stick with a period manifold. I think he has also been looking at alloy sumps.

Regards

Neil



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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by Sabre27 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:35 pm

I should add, Iain keeps things quiet until he is satisfied with the results, usually tested on his race car first, you can have initial problems when making new castings which need ironing out, Iain won't advertise the fact he is working on things until he's happy that probably why he's not admitted to doing it. He’ll let it out of the bag when he’s satisfied there ready.

Neil



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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by beemergb » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:55 am

I am going to reproduce the Raymond Mays head ,yes its going to take time , but I have my own CNC facilities and a tame casting company that can do the casting . Yes it will be more than the 1956 price ! But I need the head to get the power this conversion brings not to mention the weight saving .By the way any tech updates or changes you think we need on these heads would be appreciated . I will keep you posted .
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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by Oaksey » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:43 pm

Oooh, do you know roughly how many thousands one will cost to buy? :)


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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by beemergb » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:56 pm

Oaksey wrote:Oooh, do you know roughly how many thousands one will cost to buy? :)

Not yet ! But my wife knows Im lying when I said "it wont cost much dear ! Those 3D drawings took 100 hours including the programing ,but if you want something bad enough .Just like I needed Vincent crankases ! Here is the result !
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I didnt want to buy a secondhand head made back then !, and spend as much getting it repaird ,trying to get it to work and stay together ! Do it right or dont do it at all . I will try my best to get the best materials and technology in this head so it works first time . And the bottom line is , can anything so gorgeous as that head with three 40dcoe Webers on those lovely manifolds and to top it off the Alloy rocker cover ! No .



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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by Nick » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:39 pm

As a new Lotus Twink head is £3600 from Burton's I don't see how May's heads would be any cheaper.


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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by philhoward » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:27 pm

Ah - but that includes "Lotus tax"...

Saying that, you could also see a Mays head in an AC which probably commands a higher premium still!


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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by mermar74 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:19 pm

beemergb wrote:I am going to reproduce the Raymond Mays head ,yes its going to take time , but I have my own CNC facilities and a tame casting company that can do the casting . Yes it will be more than the 1956 price ! But I need the head to get the power this conversion brings not to mention the weight saving .By the way any tech updates or changes you think we need on these heads would be appreciated . I will keep you posted .
3D 2.jpg
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Hi Harry,

I fund it very interesting that you are intending to reproduce this cylinder head. Having been through this process many years ago I am very aware of the challenges faced with such a project.

I was very involved with another party here in Australia to remake these heads, and to cut a long story short, we spent 10 years working on this as a side project. It was a most frustrating job, mostly due to typically being let down by the best who were very good at making promises, but never delivering. We eventually got to the stage of casting 3 cylinder heads and I still have one of these tucked away for a future project. None of these casting ever got machined and finished, as the project took so long to reach this stage that by then circumstances changed, key people in this project passed away, and the enthusiasm was lost.

I can confirm that a great deal of money and effort was pumped into this project, in the end I lost the balls to carry on with it. As excited as people seem to get about the prospects of a owning a Mays head, it is a different story when it comes to actually handing over the money for one. In my opinion and after much thought, I believe only a handful of customers will pay the true costs for a Mays head, and it would take years (if ever) to recoup anywhere near the costs and efforts involved in carrying out this project. Although in saying this, it is nowadays easier and more cost effective to produce such items due to advanced technology; we did it the old way as this technology was not available to us at the time.

I wish you all the luck with this project, and pm me if you wish to discuss further.

As you probably know, some Vincent engine castings are being remade in Australia. A friend of mine is heavily involved in remanufacturing these parts, and I remember him telling me that a complete engine can now be put together with all the remanufactured parts available.

Victor Pace



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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by beemergb » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:54 pm

mermar74 wrote:
beemergb wrote:I am going to reproduce the Raymond Mays head ,yes its going to take time , but I have my own CNC facilities and a tame casting company that can do the casting . Yes it will be more than the 1956 price ! But I need the head to get the power this conversion brings not to mention the weight saving .By the way any tech updates or changes you think we need on these heads would be appreciated . I will keep you posted .
3D 2.jpg
3D 3.jpg

Hi Harry,

I fund it very interesting that you are intending to reproduce this cylinder head. Having been through this process many years ago I am very aware of the challenges faced with such a project.

I was very involved with another party here in Australia to remake these heads, and to cut a long story short, we spent 10 years working on this as a side project. It was a most frustrating job, mostly due to typically being let down by the best who were very good at making promises, but never delivering. We eventually got to the stage of casting 3 cylinder heads and I still have one of these tucked away for a future project. None of these casting ever got machined and finished, as the project took so long to reach this stage that by then circumstances changed, key people in this project passed away, and the enthusiasm was lost.

I can confirm that a great deal of money and effort was pumped into this project, in the end I lost the balls to carry on with it. As excited as people seem to get about the prospects of a owning a Mays head, it is a different story when it comes to actually handing over the money for one. In my opinion and after much thought, I believe only a handful of customers will pay the true costs for a Mays head, and it would take years (if ever) to recoup anywhere near the costs and efforts involved in carrying out this project. Although in saying this, it is nowadays easier and more cost effective to produce such items due to advanced technology; we did it the old way as this technology was not available to us at the time.

I wish you all the luck with this project, and pm me if you wish to discuss further.

As you probably know, some Vincent engine castings are being remade in Australia. A friend of mine is heavily involved in remanufacturing these parts, and I remember him telling me that a complete engine can now be put together with all the remanufactured parts available.

Victor Pace
Hello Victor , yes the reproduction of any part is a gamble , the Vincent adventure took forever and even worse I took on partners to help me finance and eventualy try to steal the whole plot ! Thank god I can use a gun !! As for the Mays head project I have a team of guys I work on prototype projects with and they are specialists in all the skills I need in such a task . I need the head ,I can make the head only due to the people around me . As for sales ,I would like to sell them , but will not rely on this , it will be a bonus not a necessity , as I earn my money doing sensible things !. Thank you for your input , and if I can PROVE my worth ! Maybe I can machine your head for you ! I have the program and one is the same as 10 , if not better . By the way I can do 3D printing in alloy and in Titanium . all the best Harry



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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by mermar74 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:19 pm

Hi Harry,

I would be very interested in having my new casting machined when the time comes. I am very occupied with the Coupe project at the moment to do anything else at this stage.

As a point of interest, how good and original is the old Mays head you used as a template? I ask this because from my experience most of these old heads have been messed about with over the years, and it is very rare to find a virgin original. Most have now had the a great deal of machining carried out on them and have ended up with very different dimensions to the original; ie the combustion chamber shape and size is often altered to compensate for all this machining and protrude past the cylinder bore edge.

It is best to make sure that the drawings you have made are dimensioned from an unmolested cylinder head. I have a most original head that has not been on an engine in over 40 years which I used as a template.

I will keep in mind that you do 3D printing as I may need your services in the future.

Victor Pace



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Re: Recasting Mays Heads ?

Post by toomanysabres » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:44 pm

Dick Sherwin might like a Vincent case.
I understand one of his was 'ruined' by an elderly 'expert' who seems to have lost the plot.


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