Error code 21 and power transistor

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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by hermeticist » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:13 pm

Apologies for posting so much and being a pest but I think I need help (possibly psychologically ;) ) and I thought this might be better in a different thread.

Basically, I bought a TI about 3 weeks ago and it needed some throttle to get started but the chap's mechanic said it was a faulty water temperature sensor.

The gauge was also not working (I was told that the gauge sensor was also gone...) but the car wasn't overheating, losing water and the fan was kicking in at approximately the correct time.

It was clear that it was running rich and the single time I've managed to have the hood down it was quite nauseating. Though, the mechanic had said this was typical of the suspected faulty thermal sensor.

I replaced the sensor but the leads are currently only attached by spade connectors because there is no plug/connector.

I then serviced the car and it was actually running worse but it was running. Basically still rich and seemingly very juddery, as if running on three cylinders.

I went around the connectors today and cleaned them and now it won't start at all. After a few attempted fails at reading the ECU I eventually got error 21, which is the ignition signal.

Clearly that might be the cause of the failure to start but surely not the rough running and overfuelling? Do I need a new power transistor?



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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by philhoward » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:35 pm

I’m going to ask a daft question - did you measure the resistance value of the temperature sensor? Generally when they fail, they go open circuit rather than report a false value.

Likewise with the ignition transistor - although they can perform below par for a bit then fail completely as soon as given serious work to do. Can you get a spark with a plug in a lead resting on something earthed?

If the ECU has no indication the engine is turning (from the dizzy) then you get no sparks or fuel. If you have one but not the other then that narrows it down a bit.


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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by hermeticist » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:45 pm

Both before and after servicing I had sparks and fuel, I haven't checked today when it suddenly stopped starting because it was horrible out, and I didn't want a replay of the time when I touched a dizzy in the rain and blew a hole in my finger! :)

I didn't check the sensor I just replaced it because a new one was only a tenner.

I will stick my multimeter on the transistor tomorrow, stupid question but does it require the ignition to be on or is it checking for continuity? I will also check to see if we have a spark. I need to move it tomorrow, I'm supposed to be having another TI arrival!



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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by peter freeman » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:35 pm

Transistors tend to either work or not work - knowing that you have had rough running for a while \i would be surprised if is duff. The pcb in the dizzy however is not so reliable - I have had one fail and so has Mark Wilson - do you know anyone who can lend you one to try.



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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by hermeticist » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:20 pm

No, I don't know anyone else with a scimitar. Although I can possibly scavenge off the car that is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I shouldn't have fiddled until I'd moved this one out of the new arrival's parking space... When will I learn? I've put the battery on to charge and I'll have another look tomorrow. I also need to check that the distributor cap is not on upside down (I don't know if this would make any difference and it certainly started with it in this position). The only reason that I say this is that I copied what was on the car and leads to 3 and 4 cylinders reach but seem shorter than I would expect (genuine Nissan ones)...



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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by gtcse8 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:30 pm

Where have you got the 21 error code from?


Mark Wilson. See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s,1 & 1/2 GTC`s, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by scimjim » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:04 pm

Codes here from the flashing lights on the ECU.


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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by hermeticist » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:57 pm

Hi, I got the code from the Big Red Book, EF61 (p.119). Ignition signal code: check harness or replace power transistor. Of course, other issues may cause a malfunction and give the fault code.

I couldn't see any other fault codes, which did surprise me...



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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by reliant-reviver » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:18 am

Rule number one (in my book) of resolving running faults on the 1800ti. Run a second earth to the coil.


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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by gtcse8 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:24 am

Dizzy cap can only go on in One position, so unless you took the leads off they will be in original position.

When my SST started running like a bag of spanners I traced it to the ECU plugs which were not fully pushed in, then about 500miles later the "Magic eyes in the dizzy failed.
This started as cutting out at first and missfiring, then got gradually worse when warming up before it failed completely.

Mark


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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by PeteMac » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:16 am

Likewise. Crank angle sensor in the dizzy failed on me with similar results. Some approaches to testing it are documented in this thread.


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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by hermeticist » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:30 am

Thank you, this is so useful. I'll run a second earth to the coil, is there a best place to position this Philip?

I've checked the ECU and the plugs are fully home, although it might be worth doing the in and out routine as I believe they are self-cleaning?

I've been thinking about the possibility of an optical sensor in the dizzy failing. I did remove the leads because I replaced the lot but I was extremely careful that everything went back as it was... Just wondering if the PO had got it right in the first instance? It only crossed my mind because the cap had Nissan on it but the name was upside down. I'm not sure, if the timing was correct, whether that would make any difference anyway? Pete, I'll check out that thread and also take my multimeter out.

What silly fool would buy an SS1 in the winter? It's cold outside!



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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by philhoward » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:33 am

hermeticist wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:30 am
I've checked the ECU and the plugs are fully home, although it might be worth doing the in and out routine as I believe they are self-cleaning?
I believe they are so it can't hurt.


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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by hermeticist » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:37 am

Thank you, (other) Phil! Or is Phil A the other one?



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Error code 21 and power transistor

Post by philhoward » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:42 am

That's a debate for another day!

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