ss1 steering rack

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richardvernon
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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by richardvernon » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:10 pm

reliant-reviver wrote:Dragging this up from the depths as I've done some measuring and comparisons today which will follow shortly.

Could someone else out there with a Chevette rack carefully count the turns lock to lock with it on the bench.
The one I have comes up at 4.2 turns and I have no reason to think it is anything other than common Chevette spec, but would like it confirmed!
Phil,
As it happens I do have one actually in my vice at the moment- really- and can confirm it has 4.2 turns lock to lock.

Also see viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25281 for my comments re rack travel and pinion rotation

As a bit of extra info I have also recently bought a new old stock Chev/ Chevan pinion coupling at a bargain price assuming it to be the same as the OE SS1 coupling but was rather surprised to find it is 12 mm longer(clinch bolt to clinch bolt) than the SS1 version and it fits perfectly with the Chev rack(and its shorter pinion) fitted to my car at the moment. The OE SS1 coupling did fit but was obviously at its limits and a tiny bit awkward to fit.

I do have a few Chev steering rack part numbers noted down if you require any for further confirmation.


1985 SS1 cvh. Galvanizing is for wusses with no sense of adventure.......

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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by scimjim » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:16 pm

How long are the different couplings Richard?


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by richardvernon » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:49 pm

Jim,
84mm for the (presumed)OE SS1 coupling on the bench and 95mm, as accurate as I can measure through engine bay, for the Chev coupling.

I half expected it to be too long, especially as I had to 'persuade' the OE ss1 coupling in previously, but it fitted in perfectly.


1985 SS1 cvh. Galvanizing is for wusses with no sense of adventure.......

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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by scimjim » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:51 pm

Ta - I strongly suspect that they're all Vauxhall/Opel parts.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by reliant-reviver » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:52 pm

Richard, thanks for confirming that! I had forgotten about that response, and dug this thread up instead as it's in a bit more of a suitable location.

Made similar discoveries today in my "rack attack" session.....

If you look closely you may spot that one of these racks is slightly distorted.

Image

After a bit of straightening of the Chevette rack, I laid it out with an SS1 item for some comparisons.

Chevette rack above in these photos.

Image
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Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Chevette coupling on the right -

Image

SS1 Above, Chevette Below

Image

From top - SS1 Modified for more lock, SS1 stock, Chevette -

Image
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Measurements as follows in the comparison of SS1 and Chevette racks

Travel per pinion turn:
SS1 45mm
Chevette 38mm

Travel as assembled:
SS1 130mm
Chevette 157mm

Max number pinon revolutions possible on rack teeth (un-assembled):
SS1 3.6
Chevette 4.8

Number of turns at pinon from lock to lock as assembled:
SS1 Standard - 2.9
SS1 Modified - 3.3
Chevette Standard - 4.2

So what does this all add up to?
The SS1 rack is quicker, with a higher ratio.
The overall travel is greater on the Chevette rack in standard guise.

The Chevette rack will fit an SS1 without altering the steering geometry. However it will require the longer Chevette flexible coupling to prevent the steering wheel fouling the column shroud.

Fitting a Chevette rack to an SS1 will lighten the steering / decrease the effort. But at the cost of the more direct sporting feel that the original rack gives. Though this may be a fair trade off for those who struggle at parking speeds (and I know a few owners who had to give their SS1's up for this reason)

From a Chevette owner's prospective (or I suppose for a drift / auto test SS1), it is possible to modify the SS1 rack by reducing the overall length of the stops / lock collars. Doing so will give a similar total travel as a standard chevette rack, but in approx 1 less pinion turn.
Wannig in France did modify a rack to do away with the Reliant track rod system in place of self contained (Meganne?) track rods. I believe he had trouble with too much lock causing the tyres to rub, which would suggest that there is a bit more lock to be had out of the SS1 rack than the one I have pictured above.

The construction of the racks is quite different, the Reliant uses alloy housings at either end, and if worn, it does require machining for the fitment of brass bushes into these ( An idea pioneered by owners of the TVR S Series I believe?)
The Chevette track rods are a service item and easily replaced. The SS1 items can be adjusted provided the nylon cups are not worn.

I do have a single example of an SS1 rack that appears to be fitted in a Chevette housing. Whether this is an original item from the factory, or a hybrid I am not sure.


Philip Andrew.
'74 Robin Super Saloon, '84 SS1 1300, '86 SS1 1800ti, '87 SS1 1300
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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by CNHSS1 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:57 pm

fab work RR 8)


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by scimjim » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:05 pm

Any part numbers cast into any of the racks? If I hadn't seen an SS1 front hub, I wouldn't believe that they'd make their own racks when they could have used something off the shelf.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by CNHSS1 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:11 pm

Is there are poverty model chevette - alike rack? Maybe chevanne or 1256 or maybe viva etc? Knowing reliant they bought chevette racks and uprights for the prototypes then did a deal for a cheaper old stock item for production...


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by scimjim » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:53 am

That's what I've always thought Craig - but then they design a bespoke hub using bespoke bearings when the Chevette hub would have been fine!


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by reliant-reviver » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:20 am

Reliant had higher hopes for production, 1500 a year, not in 5 years! I can understand why they designed their own upright, hub and disc when considering the following (speculations) -
Reliant's existing links / shared interests in local casting industry.
The need to use twin line front calipers as part of a split system for the American market.
The Chevette used Girling calipers, but Reliant were using Lockheed systems on the SE6b, GTC, Rialto and Fox.
The desire to fit a superior, maintenance free sealed bearing setup.

I would like to also point out that NONE of the front end is actually straight up Chevette. GM based, agreeably, but do we know where Reliant actually sourced the wishbone pressings from?
Neither the SS1 lower wishbones, nor the uprights, feature the lock stops present on the Chevette setup. Was this intended following the selection / specification of the SS1 rack, or vica versa (they omitted the lock stop feature from the casting / pressings by accident?!)
Limiting the racks movement is arguably a better method of controlling the steering lock then clattering lugs into wishbones as I assume is the case on the Chevette, though I've never observed the setup in use that closely to see if they do make contact. Question, how many turns lock to lock is a Chevette setup, at the steering wheel?

It would be great to have one or two of the minds involved in the development of the SS1 present at a show to pick, I'm sure I could make a real nuisance!


Philip Andrew.
'74 Robin Super Saloon, '84 SS1 1300, '86 SS1 1800ti, '87 SS1 1300
Previous: I lost count around fifty.

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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by philhoward » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:00 am

I can only assume that the pressings were obtained from the same source that GM had them from - possibly Thyssen but could also be one of a number of other suppliers.

As for the racks - it's highly feasible that GM had two suppliers (Burman rings a bell for one; possibly Cam Gears the other) so again likely Reliant went to them to make a rack to their specification based on the racks they were making for GM, hence similarities.


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by myredscimitar » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:15 am

I don't know about the SS1 rack ( never had to look at either of mine closely.... touch wood ), but when I had the 6b I had the rack in and out a few times.

From what I saw it looked like a " modular " design, so I guess made up from a set of standard parts ( pinion housing, rack bar, tube, rods, seals, end cap things etc etc) but with lengths varied to suit the specific car. I can't imagine all those different car models having bespoke rack designs, far too complex and expensive.

Keith


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by scimjim » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:36 am

By "lock stops" do you mean the folded bit of metal on the bottom wishbone?


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by reliant-reviver » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:39 am

Aye. Not certain they come in contact with normal usage, or are there as a means to prevent too much lock being achieved for whatever reason (poorly set up TRE or such?)
Present on all Chevette wishbones, but not on original SS1 items.


Philip Andrew.
'74 Robin Super Saloon, '84 SS1 1300, '86 SS1 1800ti, '87 SS1 1300
Previous: I lost count around fifty.

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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by scimjim » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:44 am

I can see it in the manual (nothing mentioned in the text) but never studied it in the metal. I picked up a pair of shovit lower wishbones and uprights last time I was in the scrappies, so I'll have a closer look.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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