SS1 Diff Ratios and LSDs

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td99
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SS1 Diff Ratios and LSDs

Post by td99 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:05 pm

Pete,
Interesting your 3.6 diff - at the moment this message notification came in I was calculating diff ratios and speeds! The standard car is certainly too low geared.
Actually wonder if a 3.4 is suitable?
Anybody know what models 3.6 & 3.4 diffs come from?


Trevor - 1800Ti daily driver
1800Ti DET project, RAV4

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Post by stewb » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:19 pm

There's no off the shelf 3.4 diff. 3.9 is std SS1 (and most 4 cylinder Sierras although there are several exceptions). 3.62 diff comes with the VLSD from the V6 XR4x4 (apparently the 4 cyl had the 3.9 with the VLSD). The only other ratios are the very tall ones for the Diesel engined Sierras, I think there were 2 (early & late) but I can't remmeber off hand, 3.14 rings a bell. Pete Silcock has one of those rebuilt with a refurbished VLSD in his Sabre. My trusty Sierra Haynes manual isn't here at present......

3.62 is a decent mod & with the bigger wheels & S14 Nissan gearbox in my Sabre results in near perfect gearing, it'll do over 45 in first now & still cruise at 75 below 3000 rpm in 5th.

Stew


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Post by reliant-reviver » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:29 pm

[url=http://www.matt_phoenix.talktalk.net/Rear_end_Sierra.html]This[/url]is a very useful page to look at for diffs....


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Post by CNHSS1 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:32 pm

here you go Trevor...

Differential And Axle Codes
The following list of codes help in finding the right ratio:
Ford axle codes(on the VIN plate): A=3.36 B=3.77 D=3.92 F=3.842 J=4.056 K=3.31 M=3.14 N=4.29 P=3.58 J=3.62 V=3.33 Z=3.59 2=4.27 3=3.62 4=3.82 5=3.26 6=3.12 8=3.56
3,14 CW47-Pin15
3,38 CW44-Pin13
3,62 CW47-Pin13
3,92 CW51-Pin13
3,77 CW49-Pin13 6.5 inch diff
3,38 fitted to 1,6 OHC ECO 5 speed
3,38 fitted to 2,0 OHC HC
3,38 fitted to 2.3 v6 ESTATE
3,14 fitted to 1,6 OHC ECO 4 speed
3,14 fitted to 2.3 v6 SALOON
3.14 fitted to 2.3 Diesel
85GG 4006 DC --- 3.97
85GG 4006 BC --- 3.62
85GG 4006 AC --- 3.38
85GG 4006 FB --- 3.36
87BG 4006 GB --- 3.14
86GG 4006 AAA --- 3.92 LSD
V87BB 4006 BAA --- 3.62 LSD
V87BG 4006 CAA --- 3.38 LSD
85GG 4006 AAA --- 3.36 LSD
Vin plate codes for Diff ratio:
Ratio Code
3.14 M
3.36 A
3.38 U
3.62 V
3.64 3
3.92 D
1.8 diesel sierra is 3.62 I think, A 2.0 16v frogeye granada(ultima) comes with a 4.27 diff, the 2.0 8v version had a 4.09 ratio diff,the 2.3s and 2.9 were 3.6s and 3.9s

I've finally found the diff ratios and codes for the Granada/Scorpio.

86-94:

A=3.36
U=3.62
3=3.64
T=3.91
D=3.92

95-98:

A=3.36
3=3.64
7=4.09
2=4.27

I'm not 100% sure, but I think this should be the engine/diff combinations.

1.8 OHC 3.62
2.0 OHC 3.62
2.0i OHC 3.62
2.0 8v (89-92) 3.92 (or 3.91)
2.0i 8v (89-94) 3.92 (or 3.91)
2.0i 8v 4.09 (95-98 )
2.0i 16v 4.27
2.3i 16v 3.91
2.4i 12v 3.64
2.8i 12v 3.62
2.8i 12v 4x4 3.62
2.9i 12v 3.64
2.9i 12v 4x4 3.62
2.9i 24v 3.64
2.5 D 3.64
2.5 TD 3.36

Diff codes (this is only a idea I had to ID diffs, I think it accurate ish )

Push in type shafts

KC 3.14 7"
LC 3.38 7"
MC 3.62 7"
JD 3.92 7"
DA 3.91 7.5"

Bolt on shafts

BA 3.14 7"
GB 3.14 7.5"
DAA 3.14 7.5" LSD
FA 3.36 7.5"
AAA 3.36 7.5" LSD
AC 3.38 7"
CAA 3.38 7" LSD
BC 3.62 7"
BAA 3.62 7" LSD
AAA 3.64 7.5" COSWORTH (this has the same number as the 3.36 7.5" LSD BUT is ID'ed by 108mm drive flanges)
ADA 3.64 7.5" GRANADA COSWORTH
DC 3.92 7"
AA 3.92 7" LSD
GA 3.91 7.5"
ABA 3.91 7.5" LSD

Ignore any diff mentioned as 7.5" as they wont fit in the SS1 diff cradle without surgery and require driveshaft machining, not just the bolt-on CV conversion to the std SS1 shafts. 7.5" CWP wont fit 7" cases either.
any 7" diff will bolt straight in, although you will need the CV joints from the driveshafts of said Sierra (100mm versions not 108mm) and do the mod as per 'Hot Hatch Hunter' article.
even easier, if you are going for a non-LSD sierra 7" diff, you can whip off the backplate of the casing, pull off the 2 retaining clips holding the diff output flanges in, and use the std SS1 push-in driveshafts with no mods! Cant be done with LSDs as the LH & RH input shafts are differing lengths to SS1 driveshafts.

pic of ford Viscous LSD fitted to my old racer using the 100mm Sierra bolt on CVs onto converted SS1 shafts (wheel end remains tripode)

Image

if you want more info, let me know.

Craig

[/img]


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Post by td99 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:59 pm

Craig,
I've put a deposit on that group buy for a quaife...
If I read your info right, what I should look for is a non-lsd 7"diff, fit the quaife to it (if the buy goes through) and remove the output flanges so original drive shafts fit?


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Post by td99 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:17 pm

Stew,
3.62 is a decent mod & with the bigger wheels & S14 Nissan gearbox in my Sabre results in near perfect gearing, it'll do over 45 in first now & still cruise at 75 below 3000 rpm in 5th.
That's what I'd like too. It's approx what a 3.4-ish diff would do with 15 in wheels. I see from the list that 3.38 exists...But I'll be keeping my ET as I can't justify a DET (pricey over here) to replace a perfectly good (so far!) ET. Chargecooler/intercooler etc should provide extra oomph to guarantee acceleration I hope.


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Post by CNHSS1 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:30 pm

TD99
yep, if you want to go to 3.62 yes. i think the 3.62 on an 1800Ti road car makes sense, especially for all round cruising, economy and performance. stick with the std rtaio 3.9 for sprinting or if you go to larger rolling radius tyres (205/50-15, or 205 or 215/45-16 etc)

the quaifes expensive as SS1 mods go, but fit and forget, doesnt wear and doesnt have the normal lsd 'downsides' for a daily driver in my humble opinion.


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Post by stewb » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:01 am

A tad more diff info than I've been privy to before!!

The big difference with the S14 gearbox (SR20DET 200SX) is 1st gear. It's a fair bit taller than the earlier boxes & the rest are a tad closer. 5th is actually very slightly shorter than the earlier box. I think the non euro S13 (CA18DET) also used the SR20 ratios. Problem with the S13 or S14 box is that it's longer than the Silvia box meaning the gearlever moves further back & the propshaft needs to be shortened.

It is truly amazing what a difference the correct gearing makes to the drivability of the car though, they are well undergeared as std!!

Stew


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'69 Tuscan V8 project which wasn't meant to be a project....
Capri 2.8 Injection Special, 20 yrs this year!

"if you do something to be impressive rather than good, you're doomed" - Spen King

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Post by stewb » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:07 am

I bow to greater knowledge....3.38 is pretty close to 3.4!! I had it in my head that one was 3.1 something & the other was 3.2 something.....obviously not!!

Finding any of those now is however like hunting hens teeth!! The 3.9 & 3.6 are probably about 500% more abundant than any of the others!!

Stew


Ex Owner of MK2 Scimitar Sabre CA18DET
'69 Tuscan V8 project which wasn't meant to be a project....
Capri 2.8 Injection Special, 20 yrs this year!

"if you do something to be impressive rather than good, you're doomed" - Spen King

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Post by Alf Torp » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:51 am

CNHSS1 wrote: pic of ford Viscous LSD fitted to my old racer using the 100mm Sierra bolt on CVs onto converted SS1 shafts (wheel end remains tripode)

[/img]
What do you mean by "Converted SS1 shafts"? Is it necessary to modify them in order to fit the CV joints?


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Post by scimjim » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:17 am

Yes - the diff Reliant used has "Tripode" end fittings. IIRC the LSD (in fact I believe all Granada and all Sierra V6 diffs) uses a "Lobro" type.

Once again - refer to Craigs hot hatch hunter article on ss1.turbo.com for details of how the pair can be matched up.

I've reproduced the relevant section here - perhaps a sticky Phil?

Fitting a Sierra Viscous LSD

Find yourself a sierra 2.0 XR4x4 car and remove the diff from its cradle, along with its inboard driveshaft CV joints and assorted E rings. Remove the SS1 diff by removing the boot floor liner, and one side trailing arm assembly (not as big a job as it sounds with the boot floor out for access - unless you're modifying a Sabre/SST). Drop the diff cradle and slide out both tripod driveshafts from the diff case (it may be easier to also remove the fuel tank straps and turn the tank through 90degrees to allow access to the single rear cradle mounting bolt ). Turn your attention to the driveshafts of the SS1 now. Cut away the rubber gaiter, and use tin snips to open up and peel back the tin shroud for the tripod CV. Don’t worry because you are going to throw them away anyway. Remove the cup and finally the C rings that hold the tripod centre to the splines of the shaft itself. Try not to damage these rings because you will need them later. Keep hold of the 1½” stiff springs too as these will also be reused. By now you will be sick of black molybdenum CV grease and the smell of EP90 diff oil, but it will be worth it.

Now for the Sierra XR4x4 diff and shafts. Remove the CV joints from the shafts, again keeping hold of the C rings, bolts, lock tab plates etc. A Haynes manual is useful for re-fitting the CV joint in the correct sequence. Ensure that the components are all cleaned thoroughly and packed with the correct spec CV grease. Essentially the later CV joints fit onto the driveshaft splines in the same manner as the original. Use whichever C rings allow the fitment of the CV onto the driveshaft (some are ‘thicker’ than others). Once the CVs are assembled onto the driveshafts, the short, stiff springs can then be inserted between the CV joint and the diff flanges. The long cap head Allen bolts can then be tightened up. One tip it to dispense with the paper gasket between the diff flange and the CV joint, as they compress with time and allow the bolts to become slack. Once tightened correctly, the whole diff assembly can be bolted back into the cradle, and raised back up into the chassis. A smear of silicone sealant around the joint of the diff flange and the CV joint will take the place of the discarded paper gasket and stop the CV grease seeping out. A bit of red paint on each cap head bolt to lock plate will ensure that you can tell at a glance if any of them are coming loose (due to the paint marks no longer lining up).

Once the diff is installed, top up the oil level and its ready to use.


There's also a good write up from Raz here

HTH


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Post by stewb » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:26 pm

The only thing worth mentioning is there are 2 sizes of lobro (CV) joints. The 7" diff used the smaller type & the 7.5"(2WD Cosworth) used the bigger ones. Not sure if all the granadas used the bigger ones too? I remeber doing a diff on a Mk3 2.9i Granada I had & that was deffo not a standard Sierra diff, it was bigger & heavier!!

I know the Granadas never used the Tripodes, pretty much only the smaller engined Sierras (below 1800 in general) as the 2.0 with rear disc brakes had the lobro type shafts too. My old XR4i (v6) had the lobro type shafts & diff but with big drums on the back.....

Stew


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'69 Tuscan V8 project which wasn't meant to be a project....
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Re: Bit of a moan and some guidance needed

Post by scimjim » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:58 pm

Just found another site with diff info (including copies of original Ford microfiche parts lists) here - I may contact the owner and ask to copy it verbatum into the wiki?

interestingly, the thread I found it from also mentions an uber rare 6.5" version?

Right, here's what I've found out about the 6,5" diff over the last two weeks for future reference.

The 6,5" diff has a 6,5" diameter crownwheel (duh..) and the same mounting arrangement as a 7"diff. It exclusively uses push in shafts that are not interchangeable with the 7"diff as they have a different number of splines at the diff end (6,5" diff has 23 splines, 7" diff has 26 splines).

The driveshaft bearings and oil seals are not available in a rebuild kit, but have the following partnumbers:

Bearings: SKF K-LM29749
Oil seals (output shafts) 83BG-3K169 A5B (or A58, I'm not sure on that one)

For the oil seals I have used generic 40x55x10mm oil seals. Whilst the diff is not running yet, they fit the casing and driveshafts well, so I don't expect any problems there.

I do not know the part numbers and/or dimensions of the pinion bearings and seals as I've left that well alone.

Oh, and it seems the 6,5" diff is a few (4?) kg lighter then a 7" diff.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Re: Bit of a moan and some guidance needed

Post by scimjim » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:05 pm

and I think this is very similar to Craigs post earlier in this thread - but I'm going to post it as an update:

Diffs:

Sierra 1987-1993:

91GG 4006 ABA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.91 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
91GG 4006 GA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.91 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio typ 2
91GG 4006 AAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.36 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
85GG 4006 DC - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.92 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio typ 2
V87BG 4006 BAA/CAA/DAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.62 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
V86BB 4006 AAA - AXLE ASY - RR LWHD & B RATIO 3.64 Sierra Cosworth LSD typ2

Sierra 1982-1986:

V86BB 4006 AAA - AXLE ASY - RR LWHD & B RATIO 3.64 Sierra Cosworth LSD typ2
V87BG 4006 BAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.62 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2

Granada/Scorpio 1985-1992

85GG 4006 ACA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.64 Granada/Scorpio LSD typ2
85GG 4006 AAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.36 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ2
91GG 4006 AAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.36 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
91GG 4006 ABA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.91 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
91GG 4006 ACA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.64 Granada/Sierra LSD (Cosworth) typ2
91GG 4006 GA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.91 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio typ 2
91GG 4006 ADA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.64 64 Granada/Scorpio LSD (Cosworth) typ2

Granada/Scorpio 1992-1994

V87BG 4006 BAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.62 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
85GG 4006 DC - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.92 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio typ 2
86GG 4006 AAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.92 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
91GG 4006 AAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.36 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
91GG 4006 ABA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.91 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
91GG 4006 ACA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.64 Granada/Scorpio LSD typ 2
91GG 4006 GA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.91 Sierra/Granada/Scorpio typ 2

Scorpio 1994 – 1998

95GG 4006 AAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 4.09 Granada/Scorpio LSD typ2
95GG 4006 ACA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.64 Granada/Scorpio LSD typ2
96GG 4006 CA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 4.09 Granada/Scorpio typ2 different mounting bracket (koala)
96GG 4006 BAA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 4.09 Granada/Scorpio LSD different mounting bracket (koala)
96GG 4006 DA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 4.27 Granada/Scorpio typ2 different mounting bracket (koala)
96GG 4006 BCA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.64 Granada/Scorpio LSD typ2 different mounting bracket (koala)
96GG 4006 BDA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.36 Granada/Scorpio LSD typ2 different mounting bracket (koala)
95GG 4006 AA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 4.09 Granada/Scorpio typ2
95GG 4006 JA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 3.64 Granada/Scorpio typ2
95GG 4006 LA - AXLE ASY-RR LWHD & B 4.27 Granada/Scorpio typ2

Typ 2 means that diff got bolted driveshafts.

also:

Ford axle codes
A=3.36 B=3.77 D=3.92 F=3.842 J=4.056 K=3.31 M=3.14 N=4.29 P=3.58 J=3.62 V=3.33 Z=3.59 2=4.27 3=3.62 4=3.82 5=3.26 6=3.12 8=3.56

3,14 CW47-Pin15
3,38 CW44-Pin13
3,62 CW47-Pin13
3,92 CW51-Pin13
3,77 CW49-Pin13 6.5 inch diff

3,38 fitted to 1,6 OHC ECO 5 speed
3,38 fitted to 2,0 OHC HC
3,38 fitted to 2.3 v6 ESTATE
3,14 fitted to 1,6 OHC ECO 4 speed
3,14 fitted to 2.3 v6 SALOON
3.14 fitted to 2.3 Diesel

85GG 4006 DC --- 3.97
85GG 4006 BC --- 3.62
85GG 4006 AC --- 3.38
85GG 4006 FB --- 3.36
87BG 4006 GB --- 3.14

86GG 4006 AAA --- 3.92 LSD
V87BB 4006 BAA --- 3.62 LSD
V87BG 4006 CAA --- 3.38 LSD
85GG 4006 AAA --- 3.36 LSD

Vin plate codes for Diff ratio

Ratio Code
3.14 M
3.36 A
3.38 V
3.62 U
3.64 3
3.92 D


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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SS1 Diff Ratios and LSDs

Post by scimjim » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:57 am

Video of lobro overhaul



Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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