Another plastic car project...

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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by Marmaduke » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:22 pm

I'm not sure of the width for the reliant spares adaptor - but if the other system (the one the RKR member developed) has an adaptor width of 9mm - since its steel, I'm fairly sure it'll hold :wink: - To be fair this system has been developed and tested by a serious engineer - so we're sure it has enough clout and exceeds the specs needed - certainly enough for a kitten and even enough for a cipher ! The picture below is one of the disks on his fox - I took a cipher wheel up to test them on his system and they fitted well - although the system needed a few minor tweaks to get it perfect for the ciphers wheels. If you like I'll keep you posted as to how I get on with them when they are fitted to the cipher (its looking like late october due to my schedule at the moment :( ). Definately agree with you on rear disks being overkill - as the kitten uses standard mini rear backplates they are cheap to repair and service - its best to leave alone in that regard as you won't see much benefit from it.

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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by Coelhomaluco » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:58 pm

Marmaduke wrote:I'm not sure of the width for the reliant spares adaptor - but if the other system (the one the RKR member developed) has an adaptor width of 9mm - since its steel, I'm fairly sure it'll hold :wink: - To be fair this system has been developed and tested by a serious engineer - so we're sure it has enough clout and exceeds the specs needed - certainly enough for a kitten and even enough for a cipher ! The picture below is one of the disks on his fox - I took a cipher wheel up to test them on his system and they fitted well - although the system needed a few minor tweaks to get it perfect for the ciphers wheels. If you like I'll keep you posted as to how I get on with them when they are fitted to the cipher (its looking like late october due to my schedule at the moment :( ). Definately agree with you on rear disks being overkill - as the kitten uses standard mini rear backplates they are cheap to repair and service - its best to leave alone in that regard as you won't see much benefit from it.

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Being mini backplates and in case of really needing a improvement, then the mini finned drums should help (easily available for the minis), if they do fit...


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by nickkeyser » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:06 pm

I looked at going to discs, but I think I'm going to stay drums for several reasons. The discs didn't fit in my wheels, but more importantly they worked perfectly well on my kitten estate with a tweeked 850, suprisingly so infact. I guess that's partly as they are designed to pull up a heavier mini.

Is the cipher lighter, or about the same weight?

The fiesta caliper setup is a good setup, looks well thought out and I collected all the bits and dos a mockup before deciding against it.

On the picture above, is that a copper pipe onto a sliding caliper?!


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by Coelhomaluco » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:18 pm

It does look like it is... Minor fail there...

Well, as I said before, I want to work mainly with what I have now, so brake upgrades can wait till I have it on the road. Then gather the bits and bobs, get the adapters done and on a weekend swap everything over as and when I have it all ready to be done. For now a refurb to the original drums will do.
Another point, and this is considering the mini side of the braking system, would a mini disk brake kit fit? There are some made for 10" wheels out there.


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by nickkeyser » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:27 pm

Mini fins (as any mini drums) need a slight tweak to get them to fit the hubs. They also generally have a 1" integral spacer. I have a pair here if your interested.


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by Marmaduke » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:29 pm

nickkeyser wrote:I looked at going to discs, but I think I'm going to stay drums for several reasons. The discs didn't fit in my wheels, but more importantly they worked perfectly well on my kitten estate with a tweeked 850, suprisingly so infact. I guess that's partly as they are designed to pull up a heavier mini.

Is the cipher lighter, or about the same weight?

The fiesta caliper setup is a good setup, looks well thought out and I collected all the bits and dos a mockup before deciding against it.

On the picture above, is that a copper pipe onto a sliding caliper?!
Yes, I'm staying standard on my kitten estate too (for insurance reasons for one thing !). To be fair the mini backplates work ok as they are designed to brake a car which is about 650kg rather than the kittens lighter weight. Certainly I've had no problems stopping with them - although I did have some fade on a very steep hill in cumbria ! I know people do have problems with the balance and tramlining under certain conditions - but in my personal experience it tends to be when adjusters on the back plates are worn....

The Cipher is a bit heavier due to the steel support structure - so its more of a Mini weight rather than a kitten weight - and thus benefits from the disks a fair bit more - but the drums will still work. Another reason to do it is Tony always planned for the production reliant cipher to have disks (I know as I asked him :wink: ), so all that we are really doing is giving the car what it would have had ! But again, in reality I've only experienced fade when really pushing the car. That said when I had a mad moment in the autotest last year - I did wonder what the car would do if I took it sprinting !! Perhaps one day when they are fitted I'll bring it to a test day and give all the folk with the pointy cars a run for their money :lol: :shock: :lol:

Well spotted :D - The copper pipe on there was only on there for ease to allow for measurement for the making of a proper cipher replacement !


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by Marmaduke » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:37 pm

Coelhomaluco wrote:It does look like it is... Minor fail there...

Well, as I said before, I want to work mainly with what I have now, so brake upgrades can wait till I have it on the road. Then gather the bits and bobs, get the adapters done and on a weekend swap everything over as and when I have it all ready to be done. For now a refurb to the original drums will do.
Another point, and this is considering the mini side of the braking system, would a mini disk brake kit fit? There are some made for 10" wheels out there.
Sounds like a good idea - definately best to get it on the road and get it running - once your happy with it, then there will be plenty of time to make some sensible mods.

Mini disk brakes unfortunately don't fit easily - the hubs are purely reliant, the mini ones have spacers integral to them and there are a few other things that stop an easy swap - greater minds than mine would know all the reasons why though. I know from a mini owning friend that he thinks that the disk for the 10" wheels offer nothing over the drums (!) and that only the ones for 12" wheels are of any benefit !
On the minifin side for the rears - it is possible (as stated previously), but they have to be the original 1960's ones without the integral spacers. Additional some very minor mods are needed as there are some very minor differences between the kitten drums and the mini ones (typically reliant !!)


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by Coelhomaluco » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:44 pm

Well, that's a binned idea then... Original mini fins are rare and expensive, and a lot older than my drums, so probably in worst condition...
Nickkeyser, thanks for the offer, but just looking at options really :)


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by philhoward » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:49 am

Would original (60's) Mini Cooper (not S) discs work, rather than the 12" variants? I used to have them on my Mini back in the 90's and they fitted under 10" alloys with no spacing function either (didn't need wheelarch extensions, even with 5x10's fitted).


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by greeny » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:13 am

philhoward wrote:Would original (60's) Mini Cooper (not S) discs work, rather than the 12" variants? I used to have them on my Mini back in the 90's and they fitted under 10" alloys with no spacing function either (didn't need wheelarch extensions, even with 5x10's fitted).

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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by scimjim » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:35 am

Expensive now though - £400+ for the kit and it contains parts you wouldn't need on a kitten (driveshafts etc).


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by philhoward » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:44 am

Versus £300 for a set of wheels to fit over the other discs?


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by nickkeyser » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:06 pm

There was a chap, going by the name of froggy with a blue kitten van, who ran Cooper S calipers. Although they are mini drums, there are a lot of differences to the point that you cant use mini discs (Kitten hubs are totally different to mini, with no space to bolt a disc to the back of) so its far from an easy conversion. The fiesta caliper conversion is easy needing an adapter and minor disc machining. When I looked in to it and mocked it all up, it was going to be very cheap - but I only got as far as making a wooden dummy mount bolting up a fiesta caliper before deciding to stick with drums - but I may go back down that route. The drums offer good stopping power but dont have great fade resistance and a PITA to keep adjusting when it was my daily.

Totally agree RE Front wishbones - far too weak, especially when you bolt a disc setup to it! I have a large collection of wishbones that ive collected over the years, including quite a few broken ones. The breaks / damage occurs in several places
- Top arms breaking through the U section.
- ARB drop links wearing big holes in the wishbone
- Front tie bars wearing holes in the wishbone and tiebar

Anywhere they are U channel and you can get away with it box them in, and put doublers on where the ARB and tie bar attach.


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by Coelhomaluco » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:47 pm

nickkeyser wrote: ...
Anywhere they are U channel and you can get away with it box them in, and put doublers on where the ARB and tie bar attach.
That is my plan, but will have to have a good look at what I have to see if it's useable or not...

Anyway, some good info on disc conversions, but I'll prob stick to the fiesta/polo conversion as it seems to be cheap, easy enough and will do the job more than ok. Considering the disks on the front, will need to get a servo really, right? What would fit there as there isn't that much room?
Last edited by erikscimitardemon on Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: quote fixed


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Re: Another plastic car project...

Post by scimjim » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:56 pm

I doubt you'll need a servo with discs and a standard engine - just make sure the master cylinder is the right size.


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