Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Moderators: scimjim, Lukeyboy46, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington, philhoward

b.c.flat hat
RSSOC Member
Posts: 2111
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: St. Martins, Oswestry.
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by b.c.flat hat » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:06 pm

Brilliant cars, very enjoyable and so under-rated. Securon do a good range of seat belts but I've not had a Se6 so don't know exactly which one is ideal. Someone will know.
Enjoy driving it, regards Crusty.



User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 19831
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 136 times
Been thanked: 501 times

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:54 pm

Glad to hear you've got it sorted now. :D
02Anders wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:02 pm
Just need to get some three-point inertia reel seatbelts fitted for the rear seats now.
If thinking of doing it yourself, have a look at this guide from AJLelectronics on how he fitted his :)

Alternatively, I believe Quickfit Safety Belt Services can do it - Martin Port wrote about having it done in his Se5a here and his article from Classic & Sportscar mag is here :)


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

02Anders
RSSOC Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:46 pm
Location: High Peak, UK
Has thanked: 36 times
Contact:

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by 02Anders » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:12 pm

Thx Gents,
However, the same time constraints are still in force. I thoroughly enjoy spannering on my classics, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm neither a mechanic nor an engineer. So while I can manage a fair amount of work myself, it does no doubt take me a bit longer than it would a pro. That's time which I just don't have right now. So having used Quickfit previously when I needed rear seatbelts in a Jag 420G, I've already booked my Scimitar in with them...
With Quickfit sorting my belts, that should 1) ensure my two daughters will be safe in the rear seat, and 2) free up enough time for me to see to the last few tweaks such as sorting the water leak on the passenger side, fitting new glass in my door mirrors and not least changing all fluids in engine, transmission and differential.


Kind Regards,
Anders Bilidt
ViaRETRO - Classics with a Scandinavian Flick...

'78 Reliant Scimitar GTE SE6a
A small handful of 70's BMW's
And a '63 Rochdale Olympic in a gazillion pieces!

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 19831
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 136 times
Been thanked: 501 times

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:18 pm

Well, Martin seemed happy with the job that Quickfit did on his, so that sounds good!


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

User avatar
Dennis Nicholas
RSSOC Member
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:38 am

The man that designed the Protech was the same that designed the Avo and the Gaz. I helped with Protech when they made their first set for the Scim 6a with correctly fitting bushes for my 6a.
Be aware that the front shock mounts had "spacers" fitted between the chassis brackets and the bush......this was a mod by Reliant to prevent wear in the brackets (sorry can't remember chassis number of changeover but it is on this site somewhere). The bracket holes were bored out larger than earlier cars from 1/2 inch to 5/8 inch and the lip of the "TOP HAT" shaped spacer is inserted into the larger hole with the washer like "brim" sitting between bracket and bush so the same diameter bolt is used. This was to stop wear caused by the metal inner sleeve against the bracket and also helped prevent wear of the hole. The extra "washer" thickness means that the (rubber or poly bush) inner sleeve is 1 1/8 (one and one eighth ) inches whereas earlier bushes were 1 1/4 inch. Too frequently, bush selling people think that all Scimitar GTE are the same and thus that the earlier 5a bits are the same for the 6 and 6a etc. Once when a new set of (earlier) bushes would not fit I was advise to just put the spacers on to the outside of the brackets!!! (Yes by a specialist!) (someone who should very much have known better) and another said to just force the brackets apart!!
Protech made up the correct dimension bushes for me using Jaguar ones with inserts......all at the same price as "normal" bushes.
Mine were adjustable spring seats which have the great advantage as said by others of allowing you to set the car at the right height regardless of uneven spring settling (front lower wishbones parallel with ground, then chassis parallel to ground side to side and front to back).
Also, as advised, of the two adjustable controls available the one that allows you to set the stiffness is very useful as you can set the ride to suite your liking from very stiff (and probably too harsh for touring, to soft (but not too wallowing).

Poly bushes - it is not the colour that maters but the hardness specification........Superflex appreciate this and have a range of different hardnesses of poly to suite what the bush is being used for......The inner sleeve is also stainless and is not bonded to the poly so allows bush to move around the sleeve as is desirable and does not rust.....the rubber bonded do not but the rubber distorts instead.

Enjoy your Scim and do keep asking....we can save what may be potential mistakes.

Regards


Dennis Nicholas(RSSOC)
1980 GTC Trafalgar Blue, 2010 basic Skoda Yeti (petrol), Austin 7s, Rileys.

02Anders
RSSOC Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:46 pm
Location: High Peak, UK
Has thanked: 36 times
Contact:

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by 02Anders » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:36 pm

Dennis, thx indeed for that write-up. Very thorough and informative... :D
As it is though, all the suspension work has already been done now. I ended up taking my Scimitar to Graham Walker. I imagine - or at the very least, hope - that they would be aware of the difference between SE5 and SE6 components in the suspension. It certainly feels really nice and tight with its fresh suspension!


Kind Regards,
Anders Bilidt
ViaRETRO - Classics with a Scandinavian Flick...

'78 Reliant Scimitar GTE SE6a
A small handful of 70's BMW's
And a '63 Rochdale Olympic in a gazillion pieces!

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 19831
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 136 times
Been thanked: 501 times

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by Roger Pennington » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:03 pm

02Anders wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:36 pm
It certainly feels really nice and tight with its fresh suspension!
That's good to hear! Now enjoy :D


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

JoeySully
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1286
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:58 pm
Location: Contae Corcaig, Éire
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 29 times
Contact:

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by JoeySully » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:19 pm

Its not just the bushes that are different sizes for the later se6a. the bottom of the shock is actually a different thickness. the later ones are thinner. I got some Spax from GW a year or so ago, they dont stock them anymore. had a few issues but ended up going straight to Spax because GW were not much help. GW only stock one shock for se5 and se6a.

if GW fitted them shocks then they probably just put the top hat washers on the out side and left the bush loose in the eye of the top and bottom mounting. this will most lilkly wear the inner eye of the shock support. The rubber bush will also rub on the side of the shock mount and wear also.
They may have bent the mount to fit too like they suggested i do. I ended up getting some larger top hat spacer washers that hold the bush sleeve tight in the correct place but fitted from the outside instead of the inside.

see here - http://www.scimitarweb.co.uk/sgwrs/view ... ax#p445332



User avatar
Dennis Nicholas
RSSOC Member
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:01 am

JoeySully
Well done for pointing this out again. The advice given to me I referred to was by another specialist.

Mark Wilson fairly recently had a new batch of the spacer washers made so will probably have some on the shelf.

I still have the drawings Protech did of the bushes made for me to the correct size.

Moderator....can that bit about the Reliant mod that Mark reproduced be put somewhere permanent on its own with no embellishments/comments.....but then it probably is?

Just shows that it really is worth getting copies of the literature Reliant pushed out, including the workshop manual and its bulletins. I know they may cost a bit but in this case just think of the cost of having to have new brackets made and welded to your chassis :shock:


Dennis Nicholas(RSSOC)
1980 GTC Trafalgar Blue, 2010 basic Skoda Yeti (petrol), Austin 7s, Rileys.

User avatar
Dennis Nicholas
RSSOC Member
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:18 am

02Anders
Sorry if we may have burst your bubble of joy, but the more the problem is brought up with our specialists and the shock/bush manufacturers then maybe the truth will get through. And anyway alternatives can be found like Protech did.

Dennis


Dennis Nicholas(RSSOC)
1980 GTC Trafalgar Blue, 2010 basic Skoda Yeti (petrol), Austin 7s, Rileys.

User avatar
Dennis Nicholas
RSSOC Member
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:48 am

Ah have found one drawing. Note it was Rod Avon designing for them at the time....yes he of Avo and Gaz designing. For my 1976 SE6a.
SCN_0009.jpg
SCN_0009.jpg (116 KiB) Viewed 1169 times
Sorry about my scribblings on their drawing. The note at the bottom - SUPAFLEX - was for me to give them the dimensions to see if they had any already available....they did not. But as this all happened back around 2006/2007 they may have them now.....hopefully in SHORE A 90 or 95 hardness.
However the modified Metalastic Jaguar bushes did the job. I did end up realising that the springs really needed to be 14 inches long and they were 250 lb inch. The 13.5 inch ones either bottomed on the built in bump stops or got coil bound on severe bumps.....cant remember which.

Dennis


Dennis Nicholas(RSSOC)
1980 GTC Trafalgar Blue, 2010 basic Skoda Yeti (petrol), Austin 7s, Rileys.

02Anders
RSSOC Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:46 pm
Location: High Peak, UK
Has thanked: 36 times
Contact:

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by 02Anders » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:02 pm

Dennis Nicholas wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:18 am
02Anders
Sorry if we may have burst your bubble of joy, but the more the problem is brought up with our specialists and the shock/bush manufacturers then maybe the truth will get through. And anyway alternatives can be found like Protech did.

Dennis
Dennis, you're not bursting my bubble at all. I truly appreciate your input! Precisely this is why I always advocate joining a owner's club regardless which classic car someone ends up buying...

So, as to move on from here, bearing in mind that I'm neither an engineer, mechanic or similar, how do I best establish whether the new suspension components fitted to my SE6a are correct or not?
I've read and re-read all that you have written in this thread as well as the link to joeysully's experiences. I do have enough technical insight tounderstand what the two of you have explained. However, I'm not entirely sure whether I'll be able to establish myself whether my suspension has been done right or wrong...?? Any suggestions...??
Needless to say, I sincerely hope it's all right. That was after all the whole point in taking it to a specialist. But equally, if it's not right, then I want to know, so it can be put right asap!


Kind Regards,
Anders Bilidt
ViaRETRO - Classics with a Scandinavian Flick...

'78 Reliant Scimitar GTE SE6a
A small handful of 70's BMW's
And a '63 Rochdale Olympic in a gazillion pieces!

User avatar
Dennis Nicholas
RSSOC Member
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Springs, Dampers and Bushings

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:59 pm

DSCF1033.JPG
DSCF1033.JPG (243.62 KiB) Viewed 910 times
DSCF1032.JPG
DSCF1032.JPG (272.17 KiB) Viewed 910 times
These photos show the spacers. The first shows the surface that goes against the bush. The ID is 1/2 inch to take the 1/2 inch UNF bolt.
The OD of the bits that stick up are 5/8 inch and they push fit in the chassis brackets 5/8 enlarged holes.

I would think that the only way you can check if all fitted properly is to slacken the top bolt and remove it then pull out the top of the damper to check that the spacers are where they should be and to measure the sizes of the various items. The torque for doing up the bolt is 50 to 60 foot pounds.
Depending on your chassis number the hole in the chassis brackets could be 1/2" or the slightly later 5/8 inches.
There will also be plane washers between bolt head and bracket and nut and bracket........this is where you might find the spacers have been wrongly pushed into the brackets from the outside if the bush is too wide (1 1/4)

Of relevance is:-
Reliant actually gave out a service bulletin in December 1976. number 1976/9.
It states that from Chassis number 6F46/18101385 the original shockers, part # R211852, has been superseded by a new damper unit, part # R212952, and because of the different bush lengths a new washer, part # R 213034, was needed and should be fitted either side of the damper.

It also states that from Chassis # 6G46/18501551 the bolt holes in the chassis were changed from 1/2" to 5/8" and a new top hat spacer washer, part # R213030, will be required if a new damper unit, part # R212952, is to be used the dealers should ensure the R213030 is fitted
.
This was to stop the wear on the inside of the brackets previously experienced.

This is where the bush width is the critical factor.... the 1 1/4 being the early (5/5a) width and the later (6/6a) being 1 1/8. The washer part of the spacers being 1/16 inch makes up the difference between bush and chassis.....1 1/16 + 1 1/8 + 1/16 = 1 1/4 = distance between brackets.
It is of course possible that different smaller width bushes may have been fitted requiring not only the spacers but extra !/2 inch ID washers to take up the space.

Dennis


Dennis Nicholas(RSSOC)
1980 GTC Trafalgar Blue, 2010 basic Skoda Yeti (petrol), Austin 7s, Rileys.

Post Reply

Return to “Se6/6a/6b/GTC”