Ti Distributor disc

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Post by frase29 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:04 pm

Hi all,

Looking to try and reverse-engineer the timing disc in the standard SS1 Ti distributor so it can work with a whole load more aftermarket ECU's. If anyone's got one going spare (or is just willing to take a load of measurements for me!) that would be fantastic. Happy to buy cheap or pay postage for one on loan.

I know there are a few options out there but i'm yet to come across one that will work exactly how I want, and with my Universities engineering department at my disposal, it shouldn't be too difficult to bash together a new disc, right?

Thanks in advance!


'87 SS1 1800ti: LSD, Megasquirt, EBC, Launch Control (oh and a decent stereo ;) )

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Post by CNHSS1 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:05 pm

VEMS produced them for the CA18DET and the RB 6 cylinder CAS. Photo etched iirc. The CA18DET version should fit with some mods and save you the trouble


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Post by CNHSS1 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:06 pm

The disc itself isn't generally the issue it's the reliability of the photo eyes that give trouble in the std dizzy


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Post by scimjim » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:13 pm

I can measure one if you’re just planning to produce a 36-1 replacement disc?


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Post by CNHSS1 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:20 pm

Cam runs at half crank speed so some aftermarket ecus won't use that, they need mods. All will run on crank speed


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Post by philhoward » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:29 pm

All depends...

For sequential injection or COP you need a cam phasing signal which the stock one gives you although it is the optical bit that gives the issue, hence using the stock dizzy with a new trigger wheel might not be the best way?

If there’s another way, then that’s another matter..


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Post by frase29 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:12 pm

What I'm looking at doing is making (and testing) a few options. All I've come across so far in terms of bolt in replacements (correct me if I'm wrong!) are ones with one ring simulated crank speed (so a 12-1-12-1 or similar) pattern, and one ring with a single trigger point. All well and good for running with pretty much any ECU, though my Megasquirt would need some mods and lose an input in order to use cam signal as well. The option I'd like to go for would be to simply put a 12-1 (or 24-1) pattern on one ring, then 12-1-12-1 (like the discs I've seen that can be bought) on the other, so i can have the option of either the ECU seeing crank or cam speed. The megasquirt fully supports cam speed input for a standard trigger wheel pattern like that, so no issue there!
I'm no good at sketching, so here's some gratuitous CAD of the idea:
Image


I realise I'm arguably not gaining much from doing it, but I don't see any gain (beyond faster sync at startup - though a couple of extra turns of the engine just means more time for the oil pump to prime in my eyes!) in having a cam wheel that simulates crank speed, just means you need to use another input to do sequential and COP (which is of course my aim here!). It's also a great excuse to mess about with the waterjet cutter (probably the best option for this), the CNC plasma and CNC mills - I'm an engineer, why buy one when I can make it myself? :lol:

In the long run I'd like to go to a proper crank trigger wheel, but even with the 4 slot (the only ring the megasquirt uses) timing is remarkably stable, so with a few more slots I expect it'll be more than fine for the sane power levels I'm aiming for!
scimjim wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:13 pm
I can measure one if you’re just planning to produce a 36-1 replacement disc?
Would be great if you could! will sketch up the measurements I'd need...


'87 SS1 1800ti: LSD, Megasquirt, EBC, Launch Control (oh and a decent stereo ;) )

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Post by frase29 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:59 pm

Image

Went overkill again - couldn't find a clear way of annotating a photo of the thing so more CAD :roll:

These are all the dimensions I'd need (i think), numbered. I will also need thickness!

Huge thanks in advance to anyone who can provide me these - I would measure it from my own car but it's at home and I'm at uni :cry:


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Post by reliant-reviver » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:19 am

Mark Wilson lives fiddling with dizzies. Be worth asking him also.


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Post by frase29 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:38 am

will do - what's his name on the forums?


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Post by scimjim » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:54 am



Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Post by CNHSS1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:39 pm

Coil on plug doesn't hold any benefits that I can see on a 70s/80s engine, its mainly emissions based and ideal when they sit in the cool area between cams, not so good on an old 8 valver. Nissan ET is a bit tight on room too, fuel rail etc in the way.
Again sequential injection is no benefit (imho) given the age of engine design and usage (It's a sports car not a Prius :lol: )

Defo a case of KISS imho

Megasquirt and the like are very capable these days, and potentially cheaper route than trying to fight 30yr old combo of Nissan and Lucas looms :shock:

Good thing with say a 36-1 crank trigger and MAP sensor is its either reading engine spees or not, nissan syatem you have 2 differeing readings, just over complex and as many Ti owners have found the weak link is the dizzy electronics.

Keep up the good work though, good project, watching witj interest :-)


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Post by gtcse8 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:30 pm

The ecu is fed from the Crank angle sensor, or Magic Eye, what`s the point in remachining the standard dizzy to fit a different type?, even if you could find a unit that could read the new disc. :?:
IF you could get a replacement disc you would then have to sort out a CAS that would be able to read it. :idea:
I personally think your trying to re invent something that don`t need doing. :w

Frase29 I have found an OE manufacturer of the original Mitsubishi CAS/Magic eye unit and have 10 left in stock ( I had to place an expensive Minimum Order ) not able to access my records at present but they are at least Half the cost of the other available units. :lol:


See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s, GTC, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

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Post by frase29 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:43 pm

COP is less of a want - more the sequential injection. Should allow me to squeeze a little bit more out of the stock injectors at the top end (for each injector there would be less squirts per engine cycle so less lost deadtime - yes i know i should really get new injectors, but really would like to keep it swappable back to the standard ECU!). That said if I'm ever running wild boost it may be nice to go COP for a more powerful coil per plug, maybe letting me keep gaps larger and not get spark blowout...

Also i do like the idea of trying to make it more economical - once i finally get it prepped for sprinting I've no means of towing so any economy gain is more money for making it faster (or, more likely, fixing it :oops: )

Not yet had trouble with my dizzy electronics, either on stock ECU or Megasquirt, but am aware it can be troublesome - if it ever dies that'll probably be the time i install a 36-1 crank wheel and gut the dizzy to give a cam input, or maybe just get a DET? (a boy can dream :lol: )


'87 SS1 1800ti: LSD, Megasquirt, EBC, Launch Control (oh and a decent stereo ;) )

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Post by CNHSS1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:44 pm

I think this is the point Mark,

all,

Looking to try and reverse-engineer the timing disc in the standard SS1 Ti distributor so it can work with a whole load more aftermarket ECU's.

Just gives options that the stock method wouldn't, quite common


Racing is life, everything before and after, is just waiting--Steve McQueen
6 time Class Champ, 2006 & 2014 SSSC Champion

RIP Batmobile, await the Rise of Dark Knight 8)
Sabre 'Light Sabre' 360hp!!
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