1969 SE5 Alfa V6 conversion: My LSD trip.

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fightingtorque
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1969 SE5 Alfa V6 conversion: My LSD trip.

Post by fightingtorque » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:12 am

EDIT Feb 2016: I am installing an Alfa V6 24V engine into a 1969 SE5
EDIT Sept 2016: I have installed an Alfa V6 24V engine and it runs and drives on the road!
EDIT July 2017: The axle blew up earlier in the year and I've been pretty slow on replacing it, but now I will add an LSD to it.

Page 1 - Initial light restoration to get the car running including making a new rear chassis section
Page 2 - An issue regarding straightening the front of the body
Page 3- Custom clutch and bellhousing mods for Alfa V6 engine - Mazda MX5 gearbox (ongoing), coolant inlet/outlet(ongoing) and start of gearbox adaptor design
Page 4 - Finishing off of the bellhousing adaptor and clutch, more work on the cooling system, 3D printed adaptors to set the exhaust manifold angles and making a mould for the modified footwells
Page 5 - Making an adaptor flange for the propshaft to back axle connection, introducing my "superbling" suspension tower brace.
Page 6: Bulkhead modifications, and news that it works (I got behind on updating the thread because I was working on it overtime to take it to 2016 Goodwood revival)
Page 7: How I made the engine mounts,
Page 8: Oil system with remote filter & cooler, and the cooling system full details, in tank fuel pump, throttle conversion
Page 9: Air filter, ECU and wiring, exhausts, rev counter/ speedo, first track day photos.
Page 10: Discussions on future suspension modifications
Page 11: First dyno run - 215Bhp
Page 12: Destruction of 7HA axle and replacement with 4HA as used in all GTE except the first 500 built. Argggghhhhhh.....
Pages 13-15: Refurbishing of a 4HA axle to replace the busted one, and installing a Jag LSD.


Original first post follows:
-----------------------------------------------

Hello and welcome to what should be the documentation of lightly reviving (for the moment) a 69 Scimitar.

I put a newbie post in last year, but progress throughout the year didn't go too well, mainly because of building a new kitchen and other work/ family stuff.

We acquired this car from a farm, nominally free of charge, as the previous owner was going to have to scrap it to clear the space. It seemed like a good idea at the time (blind drunk).

According to DVLA it was last on the road in '94. Generally the paintwork is shot, the chassis looks like it isn't super bad but outriggers have been replaced in the past and it needs the rear seatbelt/ rollhoop mounts repairing, which I intend to do in a similar manner to the pictures maestroman has posted.

The engine wouldn't start. It didn't help that the keys are lost, but once this issue was bypassed the starter blew up after a few attempts. A secondhand starter solved that, but despite working through the electrics and cleaning the carb, I could get it to fire but not start.

Eventually I compression tested it and found poor compression on cylinders 4 and 6, reasonable (130psi from memory) compression on 1,2,3 and it was not possible to get the tester into 5 because of the bulkhead proximity. One of my other cars is an Esprit, in which access to everything is a nightmare, so it is refreshing to find on the scimitar that 4/6 of things seem to be accessible and only 2/6 of them aren't.

I took off first the rocker covers and then the heads, hoping for something simple like stuck valves. It was evident that the head gasket was leaking on 4 and 6, which is a simple thing, but it didn't look bad enough to prevent the engine starting - I've seen much worse on cars that were still making good compression and running well but just with overpressure in the cooling system.

So I am still a little puzzled about why it wouldn't start, but will put the heads back on and give it another try. I wasn't very impressed with the magnitude or consistency of the spark so I will also get a new coil. Plugs and leads I already renewed - some of the leads had rodent damage.

I gave the valves a light lapping before reading in the manual that the inlet valves are aluminised and shouldn't be lapped. I have not come across this before and the internet wasn't any help either, does anyone know anything about this?

The general plan is to get it down to Le Mans this year. To do that I have to get the engine running, then find out whether clutch/ gearbox/ axle are ok, weld the chassis, check over the general steering/suspension (doesn't seem too bad) and brakes. We towed it home, the brakes do work a bit but not well, according to David who was sitting in it. He didn't run into the back of me though so they can't be too bad!

Also it ought to have a shot of paint on it. I have some ideas for this.....

I'll put some pictures in and let you know the reg details. I don't have the V5 yet, need to get round to picking that up off the guy, even though its been about 8 months. He is the brother of a friend.

Here we go.

Gav
Last edited by fightingtorque on Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:17 pm, edited 25 times in total.



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Re: 1969 SE5 by Gav & David

Post by fightingtorque » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:15 am

I have got the engine back together and it runs. Water pump and bottom hose were completely clogged up, and the pump also leaked, but there were two spare pumps in the boot so I put one on and it seems ok.

Clutch seems operational as well, which surprised me.

I haven't driven it yet because it is still up on stands, and I am using a 5 litre plastic can as the fuel tank and a battery from another car perched on the wing with just the two or three essential wires to make it go.

Next projects are to replace some chassis sections near the back of the sills, where the seat belt mounts are, as well as at the back next to the fuel tank, sort out some electrical issues, and check the brakes out.

Electrical queries are the subject of a separate post.

Chassis number is 450157



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1969 SE5

Post by fightingtorque » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:12 am

Hello ladies and gents, it seems 4 years have passed.

Got the car on the road around June 2011. Main jobs were getting the engine running, as mentioned above basically involved new head gaskets, and some welding of the outside rails, bottom of the roll hoop and a complete new rear chassis section . I did all this without taking the body off, I will put some pictures up at some point.

Used the car for the odd local trips, quite a few bits fell off but I always made it home. Repaired overdrive and replaced propshaft.

In total I had just under two years use out of it until in 2013 the exhaust manifolds fell apart quite spectacularly, but the time my mate had repaired them and I'd got them back on, the MOT had expired.

So I've put it in the garage and am now looking at doing it up properly, to include a transplant to a modern engine (not completely decided on what but I'm throwing some parts around the garage.



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1969 SE5

Post by fightingtorque » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:27 am

Image
As received


Image

Esprit has been put back on the road in 2013, just SORNed it for the winter.
The 126 was an EFI project related to my previous business, spent a long time thinking about motorcycle and Toyota Aygo engines, eventually converted back to carb and gave to the guy I got the Scim from as something for his son to use.


Image

Here is one of the previous residents, looks like he used to eat HT leads. Also note the general condition of the paintwork on roof and other upward facing surfaces.


Image

Its one of these very early cars with coupe dash

Image

Image
This parts washing machine was useful. We got a new one last year and I've not dared do this since

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Found this pile of rust trapped under the back. Previous owner must have run over an old fiat or something.
Image
Made a new one, welded it in from above & below
Image
Fairly common repair I believe





Image

Image

A bit of a spruce up by painting the top half with boat paint and a sticker to celebrate the jubilee 2012



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Re: 1969 SE5 by Gav & David

Post by Scimher » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:01 am

....I like the co-ordinated colour schemes......lot of hard work gone into it....



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Re: 1969 SE5 by Gav & David

Post by fightingtorque » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:56 am

Image
Matching luggage

[url=http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/fight ... n.jpg.html]Image[/URL
Trial fit of spoiler.


Considering it's not meant for a scimitar, it fits well. I might trim it a but more, depending on final ride height choice.
Last edited by fightingtorque on Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: 1969 SE5 by Gav & David

Post by fightingtorque » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:57 am

Image



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Re: 1969 SE5 by Gav & David

Post by Lukeyboy46 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:07 am

Did you make up that rear part of the chassis yourself? If so, that's impressive! Looks good!


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Re: 1969 SE5 by Gav & David

Post by fightingtorque » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:22 pm

Thanks, yes I made it. The main rails were made from box section that I slit with a jigsaw to make an L section, also with a small lip at the bottom to provide a similar overall profile to the original Z shape. I'm pretty happy with how all that went. The outriggers had previously been replaced, but had some issues, I did what I could with them.
Getting it as a non runner, I didn't want to go mad with stripping everything with no knowledge of whether it was going to be a car I enjoyed.
As it turned out, I had some fun with it, but was never too confident to go too far with it.
So now I want to do some more to it. I would hope to take it to the Le Mans classic in 2016 but we shall see - quite a lot of other stuff to do work/family/house wise too.

Gav



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Re: 1969 SE5 by Gav & David

Post by Elizabeth's dad » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:48 pm

The car isn't on the register, can you PM me the details please?


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Re: 1969 SE5... I've been thinking about this a long time.

Post by fightingtorque » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:41 am

Taken a while to get around to actually doing anything. Didn't want to say anything but I think it is going to be workable now so I'm breaking cover on it.
Image
Image



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Re: 1969 SE5 I've been thinking about this for a long time.

Post by MikeyBikey » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:07 am

oooh. What's that :lol: :lol: :lol:

straight six from summitorudder


Owner of a fantastic se5a (nee 5 speed) that's a bit quick (well, feels like it is!!) and now running on lpg
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8036
And is now going sprinting viewtopic.php?f=20&t=24376

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Re: 1969 SE5 I've been thinking about this for a long time.

Post by toolmanchris » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:47 am

You sure Mikey looks more v6 shaped to me - Alfa perhaps?


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Re: 1969 SE5 I've been thinking about this for a long time.

Post by philhoward » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:48 am

Looks like a 24V Alfa lump??


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Re: 1969 SE5 I've been thinking about this for a long time.

Post by fightingtorque » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:37 pm

Yes. It's only a 2.5 but it's still rated at 190hp. The black car on the left is a 156 which I bought because I originally recognised this as a "classic engine of our time", and I really liked the car, for all its faults, but mainly because of the intoxicating engine and close ratio six speed box. So I was hatching a plan in the background to put one of these engines in the Scimitar. Unfortunately the 156 had an ECU failure and a few other issues back in 2013, at that time I was starting to do a lot of business mileage and didn't want to be using a car repaired with breakeryard bits and using fuel at <30mpg so replaced it with a diesel car and decided to use that engine for the initial look see on the scim.

Main issue of course, those V6 engines were only ever used in front wheel drive or RWD with transaxle applications with one rare exception ( Alfa 6 ) so whilst it's a nice engine choice, a gearbox match has to be made. I'm using an MX5 6 speed box. My intention was / is to develop some conversion parts and make the parts or the drawings available commercially, because the question "can I put an Alfa V6 in my x y z " comes up quite a bit on the internet but there have been very few build because of the gearbox issue. A slight problem with my plan is that in 2013 you could look for Alfa V6 engine on ebay and have your pick of several in any given week from about £300, but they are a bit thinner on the ground and more expensive now. That's what happens when you have an idea and don't move on it quickly.

So far I've got the two mated with a plywood version of the adaptor I will finally use, and I am going to get a custom clutch made in order to retain the alfa flywheel. These engines are externally balanced, meaning the flywheel and front pulley are out of balance to compensate an inherent out of balance with the internal parts. So if you don't use the original flywheel you really need a full engine balance and as we all know, once you start taking the engine apart it becomes irresistable to throw money at all the various parts.....

Apart from the clutch and final version of the adaptor, I have all the cooling,wiring (Emerald ECU to go in), fuel sytem to do. The exhaust manifolds almost fit, just need a little adaptation, that's a big saving.



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