GavinR's Se5a Project

If you have a long-term project and would like to share/document progress, this is for you.

Moderators: scimjim, Lukeyboy46, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington, philhoward

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 25805
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 706 times
Contact:

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by philhoward » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:49 am

Well done - both of you!


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

User avatar
MikeyBikey
Posts: 6081
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:55 pm
Location: Sunny Falmouth. :)
Has thanked: 324 times
Been thanked: 156 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by MikeyBikey » Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:36 am

Fantastic result Gavin

Are you going to Curbs ?


Is we sideways yet...

Coco La Blanc

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by Coco La Blanc » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:30 am

Gavin/Carrie,
Many Congratulations for an outstanding result - driving a proper 'very much underated Classic' !!!
Regards,
Viv



User avatar
GavinR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:31 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by GavinR » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:22 pm

Thanks, it's great to be doing so well in something different

I'm not sure if I'll be at Curbs this year as I have a historic event in Yorkshire the weekend before

Gavin


GavinR
RSSOC Member 3513
1971 SE5a
1970 SE5 Project

User avatar
GavinR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:31 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by GavinR » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:59 pm

Ross Traders Historic - Sat 18th July 2015

This time I had a new navigator in Ross Whittock from Bath Motor Club. He has been doing night events for a few years now and has been co-driving on various forest events this year but has never done a historic road rally, but after a brief training session a few days before, we were ready to go.

There were 57 entries with us at car 6. The event started in the Forest of Dean with a Test in Oakenhill Wood which has been used in previous years, the dry conditions helping us set a good time of 7th quickest. This was followed by a long Regularity with 9 Time Controls. Although we had plotted this at the start, some of the codeboards were tricky to find. We went past one which was down a track, but when I tried to reverse back for it, I could not get reverse, which was strange as everything I'd had reverse in the car park at the start. The gearstick would go across to the reverse slot but not backwards into the gear. Anyway, it was slightly downhill to the codeboard so we rolled back, got it and were 55s late into the control. We lost another minute with a wrong slot on another section but the rest of the regularity went very well.

This took us back to Oakenhill for the same Test run in the reverse direction. We were a bit slower this time, 11th quickest. Back out on the road, there were 2 shorter Regulairites taking us to lunch at Ewyas Harold Village Hall. These both went well with just the odd traffic problem making us late at a few controls. I parked carefully at lunch - I had tried for reverse a couple more times but still could not engage it. When we left lunch we were happy to be lying 10th overall.

Just up the road we arrived at Whitfield estate for 3 Tests, one in the woods and the other 2 on tarmac roads through the parkland. The middle Test was too quick with over half the crews beating the 30mph average, and we set good times on the other 2.

The 4th Regularity was the hardest one of the event, 11 Time Controls and the navigation was given to us as we left the start, so Ross was working hard plotting the route while I tried to drive at the correct speed, and we got in to the first control exactly on time. Soon after, we had another wrong slot and this time I got reverse, so we backed out on the road, but then I couldn't get 1st or 2nd! We continued in 3rd and 4th, hoping it would sort itself out, but soon after we turned into a narrow lane, through a ford and up a steep hill. Despite the torque of the V6, I was having to slip the clutch in 3rd and about halfway up the hill the clutch started smoking and that was it. We couldn't go up the hill, and couldn't go back down as we would block the road for the other 50 competitors. So I put the handbrake on and Ross got out to direct traffic while I removed the centre console and checked the gearstick and external selector rods. These were all fine, but whatever I did I could not get 1st or 2nd.

We waited for about an hour until everyone had gone past, then Ross walked down to the last junction to stop any traffic and I reversed slowly down the hill. Back on a slightly bigger road we could get going and managed to get home without any more problems.

So a disappointing event, but many thanks to Ross for coming out with me. It was my 11th event since building the Scimitar and the first non-finish, so not a bad record :)
My next event is on Sunday 9th August so I've got a busy few weeks to sort everything out for then...


GavinR
RSSOC Member 3513
1971 SE5a
1970 SE5 Project

Scimher
Posts: 3840
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Cheddleton, Staffs.
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by Scimher » Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:28 am

.....Tough luck, Gavin...Hope it's nothing too serious with the gearbox...



User avatar
GavinR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:31 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by GavinR » Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:30 pm

Gearboxes...

Hoping it would be an easy fix, I started by removing the gearbox and dismantled it on the bench, taking a few pictures as I went along.
I had read Joe's description of rebuilding his similar box and read the workshop manual so knew roughly what to expect, but I took some extra pictures as there were some aspects I wasn't too sure about.

Image

Top cover and selector mechanism, showing the 3 selector rails and the 2 levers in the top cover. The longer lever is for reverse and the spring next to it provides the resistance to moving the gear lever into the reverse position. The shorter lever engages with either the 1st/2nd selector rail or the 3rd/4th selector rail and is moved from side to side by the other lever which pivots in front of it. At the front of the casing are 3 holes for detent balls and 3 springs sit above them in the top cover. This is in Neutral, so you can see the notches in each of the rails where the balls will sit in either 2nd, 4th or Reverse. Notches for 1st and 3rd are hidden inside the casing. The Reverse notch is further back as the lever is longer, the selector rail moves further to engage the gear.

Image

Unbolted and removed the overdrive - this was difficult as the splines were stuck tight to the mainshaft. The manual suggests running the car in overdrive then dipping the clutch which will release the loading on the splines, but the overdrive hasn't been working recently so I couldn't do this. So I resorted to using the large bolts holding the adaptor plate to the main casing as mini screw jacks and it came apart. This shows the adaptor plate still attached to the main casing, with the main shaft nut lock tabs unlocked ready to remove the nut. Also on the mainshaft there is a cam which drives the overdrive oil pump which provides the hydraulic pressure to enage the overdrive gears. The cam just slides off and this picture shows a tiny slot where a woodruff key sits to drive the cam.

Image

With the adaptor plate removed, showing the ends of the 3 selector rails on the left, the end of the layshaft middle right, and the reverse idler shaft just below it. These 2 shafts are prevented from spinning by the rectangular ends fitting into slots in the adaptor plate. The rear bearing sits in the adaptor plate.

Image

After removing 5 roll pins, the selector shafts can be removed rearwards, 1st/2nd comes out first, then 3rd/4th and lastly Reverse. In the back of the casing, shown at the bottom of the picture, are 3 interlock pins which prevent more than one selector shaft being moved at one time, thus ensuring you cannot select 2 gears at once. The interlock pins are in a cross drilling and there is a bung closing this off. The bung is like a tiny core plug, but I managed to get it out without any damage by using a 3mm allen key from the inside pushing out with a screwdriver for leverage.

Image

Here is a close up of the interlock pins. There is a very brief mention of these in the manual, but no pictures or diagrams. The tiny pin in the middle, sits in the middle selector shaft and moves from side to side when pushed by one of the bigger pins being moved by the notches in the outer selector rails. When I got everything apart, this tiny pin was not moving freely in the middle selector shaft and I think this is what caused the gear selection problems.

Image

When I could not get reverse, it was stuck off centre thus holding the reverse interlock pin in the notch on the reverse selector shaft so it could not move. But when I found reverse, it then got stuck off centre the other way, preventing the 1st/2nd selector shaft moving. The hole the tiny pin sits in is 3mm diameter so impossible to see inside it, but if I put some wire up it, it is not smooth as if it is going rusty. Everything else in the gearbox looked fine - gears and synchros all nice and shiny, but I did not want to put it back in without getting a replacement 3rd/4th selector shaft - if anyone has a spare selector shaft I would be interested in one to use to rebuild this box.

I also removed the clutch to see what damage I had done to it - there was scoring to the cover plate and signs of everything getting hot, and similar marks on the flywheel. I'm not going to replace the flywheel and that is lightened as balanced but did order a new clutch cover and plate.

Image

A couple of years ago, I had bought a spare propshaft off someone in Merthyr Tydfil and came home with a spare gearbox as well. I took the top off this one and it looked very clean and shiny inside, and had definitely been rebuilt at some point.

Image

I swapped the gear change mechanism from the old one and even replaced the detent balls with new 5/16" balls. I also balanced it vertically in the vice and squirted oil around where the selector shafts go into the rear of the casing in the hope of getting some oil to the interlock pins.

Image

After quite a few hours struggling, the box was back in, bolted to the engine and the gearbox mount on and I left it like that last night. So today I just had to finish connecting everything and fill it with oil. I'd also serviced the engine and replaced both engine mounts and the gearbox mount as they were all tired, despite being replaced when I rebuilt the car. Anyway, after I had added a litre of oil to the gearbox, I noticed it was dripping oil from behind the gearbox mount, under the overdrive. Hoping it was just the overdrive bottom plate gasket leaking, I removed the gearbox mount for a better look, but it was worse than this - it was coming from where the black brake band is sandwiched between 2 parts of the overdrive casing. There are 8 studs and nuts which hold this together, so I went round and did them up only to find one stud was snapped underneath near where the leak was. Maybe this was why the gearbox was a spare one.
I got out the old overdrive, which has a full complement of studs and took the 8 nuts off and the casings came apart quite easily and nothing dropped out, so I removed a stud for use on the new one. This gave me an idea - if I could do the same on the new box with it in the car, it would save a day taking the whole box out and fixing it on the bench. Some of the nuts were difficult to get to, but by lowering the box slightly I got the 7 nuts off and split the casings far enough apart so I could get some mole grips on the broken stud and extract it. (While dismantling the old overdrive, I discovered why it has not been working recently - the pump plunger was stuck down having picked up on the overdrive casing - there's a flat section which stops the plunger twisting and this section had rubbed against the casing for enough years that it had worn enough to get stuck - a few minutes work with a file and it was free again - with the plunger stuck there would not be any oil pressure to engage the overdrive).

While underneath doing this, I discovered the real cause of the oil leak - the brake band had been fitted in the wrong orientation!!!
The oil passages should line up, otherwise no oil will get to the overdrive gears and output shaft bearing...

Image

The brake band cannot be removed without removing the 3 sets of smaller gears and the brake ring, and I thought if I tried this it would all come apart, so I removed the other 5 studs (the top 2 go the other way so were on the rear part of the casing), and then I was able to rotate the brake band into it's correct position, refit the 5 studs and the replacement for the broken one, refit the rear casing and everything was back together.
So finally I was able to start her up and check the clutch and gears work correctly, which they did. I haven't been for a drive yet, hopefully tomorrow.

One final note, after fixing the overdrive leak, there is now a little drip from the tailshaft oil seal! I'm collecting the drips and will see how much comes out overnight and decide whether to try and replace this seal one evening next week, or leave it until after I've done the rally in Yorkshire next weekend...


GavinR
RSSOC Member 3513
1971 SE5a
1970 SE5 Project

User avatar
MikeyBikey
Posts: 6081
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:55 pm
Location: Sunny Falmouth. :)
Has thanked: 324 times
Been thanked: 156 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by MikeyBikey » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:32 pm

fantastic stuff :)


Is we sideways yet...

User avatar
GavinR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:31 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by GavinR » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:28 pm

I went for a gentle test drive last night and everything is working well, even the overdrive switches in and out smoothly which is a bonus

The tailshaft seal stops leaking when the car is on level ground, so I'm going to leave this until after this weekend's rally (and will try to remember not to park uphill!)


GavinR
RSSOC Member 3513
1971 SE5a
1970 SE5 Project

Scimher
Posts: 3840
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Cheddleton, Staffs.
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by Scimher » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:13 pm

....It may all settle down, Gavin, but they all seem to drip a bit of oil from somewhere - echoing Mikey..'fantastic stuff' - great result & best wishes for this weekend.



User avatar
GavinR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:31 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by GavinR » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:29 pm

St Wilfrids Historic - Sun 9th August 2015

A bit of a late report, but I've been busy competing and organising other events

I'd never done a rally in Yorkshire before but this fitted into my calendar well, it was recommended by some of the other regular competitors and Carrie was happy to have a weekend away. We went up on the Saturday and visited Fountains Abbey on the way to scrutineering near Ripon.
There were 58 entries and we were seeded at 17. The start was in Ripon Market Square and we were flagged away by the Mayor early Sunday morning.

The first Test was in an industrial estate nearby, a bit tight but we got round ok. On to the first regularity which was a short one with just 2 controls, we were spot on at the first, then an off road section round a couple of fields took us to the second control, only 1 second late was as good as anyone else.

The next 6 Test took place at a large working quarry - they were great fun but a little rough in places where we were driving on bigger stones. The Scimitar stood up well but we couldn't keep up with the top crews round here. Back on the road, the 2nd Regularity had 5 controls and a bit of plotting for Carrie to do. We started well but the middle section crossed a new section of the A1 which wasn't on our maps - the organisers had provided instructions of how to cross it, but not where to go at the junction the other side - we got confused, along with 20 other crews, and dropped a couple of minutes here.

Next there was a short test before a 25 mile Regularity over the Yorkshire Moors. This went very well with some good views over the countryside. On one long straight we heard this rumble from behind and unexpectedly the Vulcan bomber flew over us, heading South from a display at Croft Circuit 8)
This took us to the lunch halt where the results showed we were lying 20th.

The 4th regularity started straight from lunch and we dropped some time on this one meeting tractors in the wrong places - it was a beautiful sunny day so the farmers were busy harvesting. Another short test round a car park was a bit too tight for the Scimitar and this was followed by the next regularity with 2 controls which went well.

Regularity 6 was the toughest one on the event - 7 controls and a lot of plotting for Carrie, overall we dropped just under a minute but this was 6th best on this one, moving us up the field. Back to the quarry for the last 3 tests - some of the earlier tests joined together, but even rougher as none of the cones had been moved! There was one final Regularity after this, just a few controls to get us to the finish at a good pub in Topcliffe.

There was quite a bit of discussion at the finish around the section crossing the A1, but the organisers maintained there was enough information to work it out, (technically there was but it wasn't obvious) so the penalties stood.

We left before the results went final as it was a long way to come home - after dropping Carrie off near Welshpool, I got home at 1:30am
When I checked the results the next day, we were pleased to have got up to 10th after the afternoon regularities :D

Thanks to Ripon Motor Club for organising the event, it was very enjoyable and we're hoping to go back next year :)


That finishes my year of 4 historic rallies, many thanks to Carrie and Ross for navigating - I'm planning a similar calendar in 2016 with possibly a couple more if I can squeeze them in :D

To round up the gearbox work, I removed the prop, the gearstick and 5 nuts which hold the last part of the tailhousing to the overdrive, put it on the bench, changed the oil seal and refitted it - it took about an hour with the gearbox remaining in the car

Thanks

Gavin


GavinR
RSSOC Member 3513
1971 SE5a
1970 SE5 Project

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 25805
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 706 times
Contact:

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by philhoward » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:18 am

Great job, Gavin!


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 38556
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 1051 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by scimjim » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:38 am

Brilliant :-)


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 20297
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 560 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by Roger Pennington » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:03 pm

Excellent result, well done! :D


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

User avatar
GavinR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:31 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: GavinR's Se5a Project

Post by GavinR » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:33 pm

There wasn't much work required to the Scimitar over the winter and she passed the MOT without any problems so I just fitted some more secondhand forest tyres and she was ready to go. Here's an update of the 2 events I've done this year.


Leukaemia Historic - 14th May 2016

Having come 3rd last year and with the event based at Chepstow Racecourse just 15 minutes from my house, we had to go back again this year. There was a very good entry of 60 cars and I was seeded at Car 4 with Carrie navigating.

The format of the event was very similar to 2015 with 16 Tests and 6 Regularity sections and an hour to plot the route before the start.

We started with 3 Tests at the Racecourse, a mixture of tarmac and gravel, and we weren't particularly quick, but the first short Regularity went well, only dropping 5s.

This took us to Combe Farm, 4 gravel Tests through undulating farmland and trees, slippery in places but great fun. Our times were improving with 5th quickest on the 3rd Test here. Another short Regularity was even better, only dropping 3s, and we headed north to a new Test at Crumbland Plantation - a mixture of farm tracks, around a few buildings and across some fields to the finish. We dropped some time here as one coned section was tighter than I realised so I had to use reverse to get round. The 3rd Regularity took us to the coffee halt at Raglan Castle where we were pleased to be lying 3rd overall.

From Raglan, we headed east for a longer Regularity where we had a few problems getting caught up with another competitor and the marshal giving the wrong time when we arrived at one of the controls, so we dropped a total of 19s. There was one tarmac Test at Mamhilad which has been used for many years followed by a buffet lunch at a local village hall. By the time we left the results had been updated and we had dropped to 4th.

After lunch we went back to Mamhilad for the same Test and then started heading south with Regularity 5, anopther short one where we only dropped 2s. Next was the last and longest Regularity with 6 controls and many speed changes. This went very well as we only dropped 19s which was the best on this section. Then there were 7 Tests to get us back to the finish. The first 3 at Combe Farm, repeats of the morning's Tests, and we went quicker on all of them, 3rd quickest on the longest one. There was a short Test on the outskirts of Caerwent, 3rd quickest here again, but the final 3 back at the Racecourse we were a bit off the pace again.

Back at the finish we sat in the sunshine eating dinner and watching the last competitors go round the Tests while we waited for the Results.

Our performance in the afternoon was good enough to give us 3rd Overall, 35s last year's winners Howard Warren / Iain Tullie (Porsche 911) who were 40s behind Matt Warren / Andy Pullan (Mk1 Escort RS2000).

Many thanks to the organisers and marshals for a very enjoyable event, and thanks to Carrie for a good job on the maps and speed tables, we were the best on the Regularities.

Two pictures from the Crumbland Plantation Test, taken by Joshua Davies-Box

Image

Image



East Anglian Classic - 19th June 2016

There was a small but strong entry for this event and myself and Carrie were seeded at Car 1 after winning in 2015. The event was once again based near Stansted Airport with 5 Regularities around Essex, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire and 13 Tests at Wethersfield Airfield.

We started with 3 Regularities, the first one going well, the second one we were a bit out on the distances and the third one we were held up by a member of the public who was not impressed to find there was a rally going past his house when he was trimming the hedge (he would have been given a letter some weeks before) and we dropped 30s. We were also having problems with some of the marshals not being ready which sometimes happens running first on the road.

Onto Wethersfield and there were 7 separate Tests laid out, an ambitious plan by the organisers but it did stretch the marshals. We enjoyed these and set some quick times. The next Regularity went well but the problems with the earlier ones meant we were 7th at lunch.

After lunch we had a complete disaster on the Regularity due to various things going wrong and we lost over 2 minutes. Back at Wethersfield made back the time on the Tests before the last Regularity which was Plot and Bash. This year it was very simple navigation so everyone had a good run through.

At the finish we were 9th Overall and 4th in Class, with Matt Warren / Ryan Pickering first overall. We were 4th on the Tests but the Regularity problems dropped us back. Thanks to Carrie for navigating.

Two pictures from Wethersfield taken by Andy Manston of M & H Photography

Image

Image


Next event is a return trip to Yorkshire for the St Wilfrids Classic in August


GavinR
RSSOC Member 3513
1971 SE5a
1970 SE5 Project

Post Reply

Return to “Project Progress”