Joe's 1972 GTE - Wiring loom Repair

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Joe's 1972 GTE - Of Batteries and Airboxes.

Post by scimjim » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:35 am

Yes, I was going to ask if they’d already been swapped over once?

Headlining looks great :D


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Of Batteries and Airboxes.

Post by Joe. » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:14 am

Coupe Racing wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:47 am
The outside of the chrome trim can be fitted inside the car as they are not handed
Cheers, I think someone may have already done that with my current set of windows, possibly me during the 2011 rebuild! Another reason I'd like to get a replacement set is mine have a security mark on them from another car which It would be nice to get rid of it.

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Joe's 1972 GTE - Headline(ing) News

Post by fightingtorque » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:39 am

Joe. wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:08 am
Not entirely sure by what you mean by fuel puddling in the inlet manifold? The Post injector run to the cylinder is longer than you get on a more modern Multipoint injection system but my understanding is that fuel in the inlet should be atomising post injector and the ECU should trim the fuelling to suit the inlet air temperature. As fuel/air is subjected to ambient heat this should aid atomisation and there should not be any 'pooling' as such?
Hi Joe,
Long time in replying, my apologies! There is some atomisation from the injector, but you will have some fuel puddling in the manifold and ports for sure, also referred to as "wall wetting". This is not a problem as long as it isn't collecting a large amount anywhere. The amount of fuel resident in the manifold will quickly stabilise itself under any steady condition, so it won't affect the mixture, but the amount of wall wetting will be different in different conditions, so it can affect the transient behaviour as you change from one load to another. Transient throttle enrichment (like an accelerator pump) is used to solve this, there will be some settings in the ECU.


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Headline(ing) News

Post by 1969SE5 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:13 am

well done on the headlining, looks great !!
It's the one job on my list of things that I keep avoiding..... Don't suppose your Mum has considered starting producing for re-sale !! lol :D


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Headline(ing) News

Post by Mr Bridger » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:38 pm

I also think your head lining looks fantastic. :)

How did you fit the trim on the inside of the A pillar trim? Mine is completely missing and looks awful so I'm very keen to replace it, but I've never been able to work out how the trim is attached. Does it have some sort of card backing or foam underneath?


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Post by Joe. » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:12 am

Mr Bridger wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:38 pm
I also think your head lining looks fantastic. :)

How did you fit the trim on the inside of the A pillar trim? Mine is completely missing and looks awful so I'm very keen to replace it, but I've never been able to work out how the trim is attached. Does it have some sort of card backing or foam underneath?
Theres 3mm Scrim Foam glued to the fibreglass of the A pillar, I've not got a decent picture you can just see it in the background of this one:

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The A-pillar trim is generally made from the same fabric as the headlining. (with the ribbed pattern running at 90 degrees to the headlining) This is different from the B-C Pillars which are vinyl. I assume Relaint deliberately used fabric on the a-pillars as it is more foregiving and less likely to ruck up or crease during windscreen fitting and any wrincle would be less noticable. The fabric is contact adhesived in place and still has some movement.

I used vinyl on mine as the a-pillar trims were cut and stiched before I'd sourced the wool for the headliner. As they were already made it would have been daft not to use them. We'll see what they look like once the windscreen goes in!

The top line of the a pillar trim is quite hard to get in the right place, I spent along time messing about looking at old photos of my car and getting the positioning right before gluing. Its a subdash out job really as the trims run all the way down to the joint with the carpet. Though it may be possible to do it by just taking the dash top off...



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Post by Mr Bridger » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:51 pm

Thanks Joe, that's very helpful.


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Post by Joe. » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:36 am

Generating More work for myself... (continued now part 3!)

Yes this is a follow up from the last post about the Denso alternator... Shortly after starting the modifications covered in my last post I began reading up on modern ford alternators (under the belief that my new alternator was originally intended to fit to a focus or transit connect.) It turns out that modern ford alternators use a smart charge system. Where the regulation of the output is governed by an ecu (PCM power control module) This helps ensure modernz have the charge optimised for engine efficiency and performance. (Who knew?)

In my application smart control wasn’t going to be ideal as I have not got a Powertrain control module to control the output also I don't really need the added complexity that such a system would offer. After some time on google I was pleased to find my alternator was not actually a Ford one. It was instead intended for a variety of Chrysler products....

To be specific my donor alternator was intended to be fitted to a Chrysler Cirrus, Dodge Stratus or a Plymouth Breeze made between 1995-2000. In the UK all these are hopelessly obscure, I'd never heard of any of them before! not ideal from a future spares point of view. This may also explain why this alternator was so cheap on eBay and why I was the only bidder.

To make matters worse those cars all used an ECU governed regulator not that far from the Ford Focus concept.

Heres an alternator wiring diagram for one of the Chrysler cars. (The key point being that the field control of the alternator is being managed by the PCM)


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Eventually I decided to take my alternator apart and have a look.... The lack of a heatsink under the cover confirmed my fears that this unit was externally regulated.

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Brown plastic and a resistor where Ideally there would have been a regulator:

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At this point the sensible call would have been to either a) buy another Denso alternator with internal regulation or b) give up. instead I resorted to plan c…

Surely it would be possible to just covert the alternator I’d got by swapping the internal parts over? WCPGW?

I started by ordering a random regualtor based on nothing more than it having the same plug type and the correct mounting dimensions,

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New and old comparison:

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Initally it looked quite promising:

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When I tried to fit it with the bush box there was clearly something that wasn’t lining up ... the brush box was not compatible with the new regulator.

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back to eBay… New brush box purchased.

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All the parts fitted together ok, but were they compatible? I wasn’t sure. But at least they fitted under the rear cover.

I then got keen and modified the backplate to give the heatsink better airflow…

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The bottom mounts were reamed out a bit to alow the alternator to sit on the new tubular spacer…

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and the bracket was reshaped to maximise the range of movement (to help get the fan belt on)

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The fan pulley was shimmed to get the alignment just right.

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This last shot shows what its all been about. improving output while keeping a decent gap between ther servo on one side and rocker cover on the other side, while still allowing enough adjustment.

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Its now ready for powered testing... Or is it?

To be continued….
Last edited by Joe. on Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Headline(ing) News

Post by Tinker man » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:44 am

after all that work i hope its a success.

just another example of the skilled people on here.

Ian.


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Wiring loom Repair

Post by Joe. » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:14 pm

Wiring Refurbishment (part 2): The main Loom

I last wrote about wiring in March… its now August, refurbishment and modification of the wiring loom consumed more 3 weekends in the end. As it turned out they had to be spread out over a few months due to a need to find time when both Dave and myself were available to deal with it. Lots of the smaller jobs like refurbishing switches have been done by me in and around those weekends.

Working on a complicated job like this throws up all sorts of issues, simple stuff like beginning a job and discovering that the wires ordered for a job are all odd colours and you can’t remember why you ordered them. Or discovering that all the fuseboxes you’ve got are horrible… Having been damaged by 40 years worth of battery acid and partially melted. Or simply forgetting where you’d got to with a job because you last worked on it 5 weeks ago...!

Full credit needs to go to Dave for his help on the wiring (and on this project generally actually.) His marine electrics background has once again proved invaluable. I’m not sure I would have been able to do anywhere as near a tidy job working on my own. Even with an electrics specialist to help this has been a horrible job. One I won’t be in a rush to repeat.

My last post on wiring in March showed the loom I was planning on using, Its from a 1975 car so has a few minor differences compared to a 1972 car but as we’re customising it they shouldn’t matter.

All the loom tape was stripped off it, taking care to leave the factory electrical tape in place, this was to help show where the spurs and connectors branch off. The wires were cleaned of any sticky residue oil contamination etc. Insulation was inspected for damage and where needed continuity checked.

Heres a photo showing the main loom at the early stages:

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Before starting this I’d ordered a decent amount of replacement connectors, Uninsulated ring terminals, assorted sizes of uninsulated spade terminals and hard and soft covers. As well as some more specialist connectors and pins for the Rists multi-plugs. The general approach was to replace anything which looked damaged or worn or any connector with was corroded.

Most of the earths were replaced, though those behind the dashboard were generally in good condition, most spade terminals were also changed.

Heres an original Lucas Rists multiplg with some new pins:

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Heres a closeup of the back of the dash. with the checked over wiring being connected up to the gauges in the foreground, in the background you can still see some of the old blue bullets that were being replaced.

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There were a few small splits to deal with such as these feeds for brake pad warning and brake fluid level which had been scotch locked together.

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The fuse box was evaluated and in the end Dave decided to remove all the terminals from the board. Using a modified screwdriver and a bit of messing about they can be released. (We ended up doing this to all of my second hand fuse boxes to ensure we had plenty of termials )

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At this point there was a trawl round online to find a modern alternative, theres lots of aftermarket fuse boards out there, however few are compact enough to fit in the standard location and look tidy. Those that are suitable a few were ruled out for looking offensively budget, others would have needed new brackets or alternative mountings making. The worst flaw with the standard fuse box seemed to be the plastic had melted around some of the higher load fuses. Dave was convinced that with some careful soldering some bridging cables would prevent this by ensuring good connectivity to both sides of the fuse... This assumed I could find an origonal fuse box in good condition! Some searching required then...

Heres a picture of the main loom after all the connectors had been checked:

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At this point the dashboard end of the loom was ready, wiring for the heated front screen, fog and spotlights had all been added and the wires had been rerapped with non adhesive PVC loom tape.

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The taping was only done as far as the fuse box as that had yet to be sorted out.

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Also I needed to find a location in the engine bay for all the wiring to connect to the battery… The cables were all left long to leave enough to reach somewhere suitable…

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To be continued...



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Wiring loom Repair

Post by Joe. » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:19 pm

Wiring & Electrics (part 3): Dashboard Switches, Modules and a radio…

A few years back I fitted lumenition electic ignition to my GTE and in order to keep the rev counter working I had to convert my older smiths RVI rev counter into an RVC type.

Theres a company called Spiyda who make a conversion board to do this. https://www.spiyda.com

While I was ordering their rev counter kit I happened to notice that they also did a solid state voltage stabiliser and a fuel warning light module. So I bought those as well. the rev counter kit was used straight away but the other two modules were left sitting in a box for the next 3 years waiting for me to actually do something with the electrics…

I bought the fuel warning light control module as the standard Lucas one tended to turn itself on randomly below half a tank. and would be on constantly below 1/3rd of a tank.

The new module is measures the resistance from the sender and can be setup to suit a range of different sender types and can be calibrated to switch the fuel warning light on exactly when you want it.

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Dave then got carried away and decided to fit the new solid state voltage stabiliser inside the case of an original Lucas one…

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Its riveted to the case which will in turn be earthed somewhere suitable.

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connections soldered:

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I’ve bought some timed heated window relays. These will allow the front or rear heated windows to be operated on a 5 minute timer. They will probably live on top of the radio so they can be got at easily when the dash is fitted.

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To operate the new heated screens I have altered the existing heated rear window switch. Instead of a simple rocker that was either on / off the aim was to modify it to a momentary type doing: front /off / rear. This sounds horrifically complicated but is actually a fairly easy job!

I started by sorting through my collection of used switches and found a spare screen wash switch,

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I took it apart cleaned the terminals up and changed the centre over!

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As a final improvement I polished the plastic surround with Autosol and it cleaned up quite nicely. It worked so well I ended up doing it on several other surrounds. until I had enough for all the switches.

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As I’d begun to fit up the dashboard this seemed like a good time to think about the radio

In 1972 as standard Reliant were offering a radiomobile (1095x) as standard which picked up long wave or mw but that was about it. Optional extra would have been a 8 track and later in the 5a production run they offered a Phillips cassette player for a whopping £85 thats the equivalent of £847.17 in todays money!

I had no radio at all when I bought the car in 2010 and during the rebuild fitted a radiomobile 1085x I bought at a car boot sale for £3. It looked wonderfully period but was hopeless at receiving a signal with the engine running (not helped by a lack of suppression on my non standard wiring loom,) This was never major problem as I did without radio in favour of just listening to stuff through my iPod fed directly into the amplifier. Over time though I started to miss live radio (mainly radio 4 and Kerrang (when in the midlands.))

What I needed was a period radio that could pickup FM and would not look out of place on the dashboard… easier said than done. I wanted something that was identifiably 70’s. Before the din mount and the graphic equaliser...

A simple Blaupunkt would probably have done but I was consistently outbid on those. After a long search I came across a seemingly ideal unit. It was FM capable, push button, had a decent amount of features for an early radio. Its in decent working order too and even the cassette function works. I’ve even got a few tapes knocking around to use with it bought before the hipsters drove the prices up.

Motorola: 708

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The whole unit seems very well put together I’m guessing it was probably mainly sold as an aftermarket upgrade? I can find hardly any information about it online. I did manage to find a picture of the UK factory that made it though…

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I’m aiming to keep my existing amplifier and speaker setup, with iPod input and I'll try and figure out a way of switching the inputs.

Slightly annoyingly when I trial fitted the radio the stainless surround did not fit into the scimitars dashboard. If it can’t be modified I’ll probably just leave it off.

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The photo above shows the radio without the surround, also I’ve finally fitted a volt meter with the right colour needle! (white not orange) and you can see a few of the refurbished switches.

Heres an overview of the dash with all the short runs connected to the gauges.

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and another shot from the front:

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Joe's 1972 GTE - Wiring loom Repair

Post by Joe. » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:18 am

Wiring and Electrics - Part 4

This post continues directly from the last one about the electrics overhaul. You may remember the main loom was unfinished and awaiting a final decisions on which fuse box I was going to use and where in the engine bay I was going to put some junction boxes...

I bought two junction boxes when I moved the battery location, but was waiting till the loom was ready before finalising where I was going to install them. The new boxes will become the main meeting points for all the major electrical terminals. The positive box has the connection points between alternator / battery / amplifier / ECU and wiring loom's feeds. The negative will connect battery to engine & chassis earth points and connect to the amplifier and ECU.

A number of location ideas were explored...

Under the wiper motor:

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Next to the main loom:

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On a bracket next to the loom:

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A complex double stacked arrangement:

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I've probably got 10 more alternate locations that were considered and rejected for some reason or another.

I decided in the end that there may be room at the forward end of the battery shelf. Close to the headlights. I had Just* enough length in the cables to reach this far...

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A fibreglass bracket was made:

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Looks promising.

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In the absence of any better ideas it was decided this was probably the best available option.

The loom was then able to be trial fitted to the car in order to find the lengths of cables. (We were changing the branching point for the power feeds in the main loom and finalising the length of the alternator wiring.)

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I had also finally got a solution for the fuse box... managing to find a new old stock one!

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And a few new old stock brass terminals (and a selection of good used ones not pictured)

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Which meant I had a bare fuse box that could be populated with new terminals,

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Dave modified the fusebox with additional piggy-back wires soldered in to spread the load, rectifying the major weakness of the original design.

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The main loom was then complete and once the binding was finished it was ready to fit; not many photos of pulling it through. as it was an awkward process with Dave feeding the loom into the wing in the engine bay while I crammed myself in the passenger footwell to work each of the connectors through one by one...

All of this lot gets pulled through a 1" 3/4 hole!

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Sub-dash back in,

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I then moved onto the rear wiring loom which runs under the car to connect to the tailight loom and all the way up the c-pillar to power the interior lights / heated rear window.

I've gone for modern AMP super-seal connectors for all the most weather exposed joints. As used on modern cars, These connectors require a set of econoseal / superseal crimping pliers to fit but they provide much better weatherproofing than the old lucas-rists connectors. modern car makers use this style connector in a range of vulnerable locations. On a modern car its common to see both econoseal and superseal style connectors but the plug shapes and sizes vary quite a bit. Presumably they make their own plugs under licence utilising standardised terminals inside.

Superseal connectors:

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Rear loom:

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Loomtaping:

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The cleaning and evaluation process was completed by going through the tailight loom heres the finished article:

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I then fitted the rear loom and tail light looms to the car and was ready connect up the battery for testing...

Heres what happened when the power was connected:



Yes the new alternator shat itself with a major internal short... Back to the drawing board then.

Cheers for reading,

Joe
Last edited by Joe. on Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Wiring loom Repair

Post by AJL Electronics » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:14 am

If that Voltage regulator is just a 7810, it ideally needs a pair of capacitors at the input and output terminals. Have a feel in the heatshrink sleeve to see if they are there.


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Wiring loom Repair

Post by Joe. » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:26 am

AJL Electronics wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:14 am
If that Voltage regulator is just a 7810, it ideally needs a pair of capacitors at the input and output terminals. Have a feel in the heatshrink sleeve to see if they are there.
Cheers for the suggestion, the powered test was a couple of weeks back and I did do a bit of digging to try and find out what went wrong!

It actually did that twice with two slightly different regulators and the video was shot on the second attempt.

Heres a few pics from the autopsy...

Both regulator and brush box have got signs of having got incredibly hot on several of the soldered joints and theres signs of arcing between the brush box and regulator and the internal casting of the alternator. I guess the internal casing must different for internatlly regulated units to prevent this.

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In the end it melted £45 worth of parts and I'm drawing a line under that particular unit and not wasting any more time and money on it.

I've bought another unit thats similar in size and has internal regulation as standard ( for a Toyota Yaris MK1.) The bracket will need modifying to suit though! Here a picture of both alternators and the bracket on the bench:

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Please excuse the mess of part completed projects on the bench! A quick count shows parts from at least 6 GTE related jobs all going on at once! (ignore the seatbelts they are not Scimitar related)



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