Joe's 1972 GTE - Wiring loom Repair

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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting - Exhaust Midboxes...

Post by MikeyBikey » Sun May 27, 2018 11:42 pm

I have open headers, 2 " pipe, no middle boxes, rear silencers have been opened and packed with exhaust wadding then resealed but still straight through. Works very well and is about 97db so passes all sprinting noise tests


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting - Exhaust Midboxes...

Post by Coupe Racing » Mon May 28, 2018 4:57 pm

My V6 Coupe was a 50mm system from front to back.

3 branch long tubular manifolds - then cherry bombs in the centre and straight through boxes at the rear - so in effect you could in theory see from one end to the other.
Now I know the kinks in the GTE system makes this very difficult , but the point was , it was not noisy at all


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting - Exhaust Midboxes...

Post by efi_sprintgte » Mon May 28, 2018 8:33 pm

Pepe, the car is EFI.

Midrange light throttle torque will be better with a free breathing exhaust so VE goes up and fuel consumption gets better. Use the extra power and obviously the fuel economy gets worse 8) :lol:

Those mid boxes with rear boxes will give very acceptable noise levels.


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting - Exhaust Midboxes...

Post by Pepe » Mon May 28, 2018 8:48 pm

:oops: :oops:

How could it happen I overead the three letters
E
F
I

....


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting - Exhaust Midboxes...

Post by Joe. » Tue May 29, 2018 1:44 am

Pepe wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:55 pm
Hey Joe,

Are you satisfied with the bumpers? I was thinking to by some for mine especially rear... but what you state (thinner, poor fit) somehow pushes me away from GH bumpers again...

Also very interesting to see the fuel fillers are still made new. Although both, the filler and the lid are currently unavailable (as locked version, issues with cast).
I was wondering where the yellowish stains come from on my freshly polished bumper and fuel swappin OVER it furing fueling up was my first thought... Fuel spilling out is a good explanation though. I'll check the inner gasket on that...
Hi Pepe, as efi_sprintgte mentions my car is now efi (covered in some of the earlier posts) I will get it remapped when It goes back on the road, hopefully at the same time as I get the O2 Sensors and knock sensor setup.

The Stainless bumpers did need some customisation to fit, which I did know they might before I bought them. As it turns out I only had to take the flap disc to the front quater sections. I'm quite pleased with how the front has have turned out, the rear bumper fit problems may in part be my new (custom made) bumper irons not quite being the same profile as the Reliant ones and requiring a bit more fettling. I'm confident with another go I can probably get the rear bumper to match the factory one in terms of fit and postion.

The thinner gauge of the metal means the bumpers are definately less rigid, but its not apparent unless your holding it and applying pressure. in Day to day use it may turn out to be better for the bumpers to flex rather than the bumper irons or the bodywork / mounting points.

A Factory set of bumpers (either NOS or revchomed) are probably easier to fit but are more likely to need regular cleaning and polishing. Personally as I'm not a natual polisher so stainless makes more sense long term.

I'd buy another set for one of my coupés.... if harringtons did Coupé front bumpers!



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting - Exhaust Midboxes...

Post by Joe. » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:42 am

Airboxes / battery location.

In this post I'm going to put the battery in the boot. Why? I hear you asking!

The short* answer is its the first step towards improving the airbox / air filter setup. Anyone with a good memory may remember that back when the EFI engine went in I had some difficulty get an off the shelf air filter housing to actually fit ( the post is on page 16.) Since then I came up with several alternative Ideas all of which turned out not to be straight forward. The big problem is that there is only really clearance around the top of the throttle bodies for a filter or Air horns, not both. I experimented with the idea of moving the air filter to a remote location and then making a separate plenum to cover the throttle bodies but I struggled to find a location big enough for an air filter housing.

Here’s a couple of pictures for last year, the first is a mock-up of an aftermarket air filter housing which turned out to be too big to fit anywhere.

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In the second I was experimenting with the idea of putting a cone filter of some sort down by the radiator and piping it to the top of the engine. I went off the idea as the lengths were too long and it did not seem like an ideal mounting place; being too close to road grime and liable to choking from puddles, fords and flood water.

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I was quite keen on the Middlebridge Scimitar setup which has a nice direct run:

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But to do this on a 5a I was going to have to relocate the battery...

The second cubby hole in the boot seemed like the ideal spot, I had kept a tool bag in here but I can probably find room for that with the jack at the front of the car... The current battery is a Varta B34 a 057 /049 size battery which is about as big as you can put in the standard 5a battery shelf. Its been a pretty good battery and there was nothing wrong with it... Except that it doesn’t actually fit in the cubby hole...

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Ideally I needed to get the battery down low enough to give me about 25- 30mm of clearance, room for some battery clamps and terminals. and a bit of breathing space. Which led to the end conclusion that I was going to need to modify the box (yes more fibreglass work!)

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A look underneath shows that there’s not actually masses of space between the box and the rear exhaust silencer...

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Around 3" actually,

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Which mean't that to fit my existing Varta battery in the cubby hole with clearance I'd need to take the rear silencer off completely! This is presumably why quite a few other people just put a box or a cover over the top of the battery and forget about it! The only other option was to fit a smaller battery which with all the extra demands on the electrical system on my car was bound to be problematic.

After a bit of research online and I came across a company called Odyssey who produce a thin plate lead acid Car battery which uses a more efficient plate design to pack an equivalent power into a smaller space. Interestingly their batteries are of a Valve Regulated Lead acid (VRLA) type in which which the acid is impregnated into strips of fibreglass. This means they are able to be fitted on their sides without risk of leaking acid!

The technology to make batteries of this kind has been around for about 40-50 years, They are commonly used in industrial applications, aviation and telecoms. They haven’t really taken off with car makers possibly due to their higher costs, though they are often used in motorsport.

The best size that suited my available space was the PC950 Which offers 400 CCA and 34 amp hours. in a battery that only measures measures 250mm long, 97mm wide and 156mm high!

They are pretty pricey compared to a standard Car battery as they cost roughly twice as much!

It turns out that the factory that makes them (for the European market) is in Newport, Wales so at least you can buy safe in the knowledge that your supporting British / Welsh Jobs and Industry!

There’s a video of them being made in their USA plant Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkstixBuwjc

And a bit more on VRLA's development here:
http://www.batteriesinternational.com/2 ... a-battery/

So inevitably I bought one...

Its quite small really,

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Specs:

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To be continued....



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Of Batteries and Airboxes.

Post by Stephenl » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:37 am

Great write up! Looking forward to the next installment. "Will it fit in the cubby?" I assume it will but I still want to see!


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Of Batteries and Airboxes.

Post by Joe. » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:09 pm

Battery location Continued:

I knew before I ordered it that i still did not have quite enough space in the box to get the lid on ( it was about 10mm away from the lid being an interference fit with the terminals. ) This was close enough lower the bottom of the cubby box by about 35mm and still have a good amount of air room between the box and the silencer.

Fibreglass time (again.) I had to cut out a section of the wheelarch liner in order to gain a bit of working room.

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Better make sure there’s room for the silencer still,

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Wheel arch liner goes back on:

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With a bit of black primer you can hardly tell its been changed...

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I still needed to drill a hole for the grommet (theres no room for a drill from outside the box as the chassis is in the way, and there’s not enough clearance to get a drill inside the box from inside. So I resorted to using the hole saw by hand which took ages!

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I really need to get a Makita Right angle drill for jobs like this. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Makita-DDA35 ... 1438.l2649

Inevitably I had to buy a load of cable too, I've gone for Oceanflex as its tinned and designed to resist corrosion. 35mm² would probably have been acceptable in this application, but because of the long cable run and to mitigate against voltage drop in the end I've gone for 50mm² cable and a dedicated battery earth too, instead of having a short run of earth cable between the chassis and battery.

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I've bought some Terminals to go at the engine bay end which will link the battery in to the wiring loom(s) connect to the starter / alternator / amplifier and all of the existing earths from the chassis / engine. Not totally sure where they will be mounted yet!

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I've also got some plastic mounts to secure the cable as it runs under the car.

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I'm going for an under car routing as there’s not much room along the chassis rails for 2 massive cables. Instead the new battery wires run along the top of the gearbox tunnel, there’s a decent amount of space to do this, but access is hindered a bit by the drivetrain.

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I've created a few custom aluminium brackets to route the cable round diffiult spots. The bolt is going through 3mm ally flatbar tapped at 1/4" unf with a dab of locktite to hold it captive.

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Here it is fitted:

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Heres where the cable enters the new battery box, I've added a main battery fuse too as a bit of extra protection against the cable running under the car being damaged and causing a major short.

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For the time being the battery wires are sticking up through this grommet until I can work out a neat mounting point for the junction boxes.

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Final photo showing the space I've now got which I can use to create an air box.

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There may be the option to take in cool air from the radiator ducting or the wheel arch area. A future project. The car will go back on the road with the current filter (probably)

Cheers

Joe
Last edited by Joe. on Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post by MikeT » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:48 pm

Looking really good Joe - makes me want to go out in the garage and do something ;)

Mike.


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Post by Joe. » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:10 pm

MikeT wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:48 pm
Looking really good Joe - makes me want to go out in the garage and do something ;)
Cheers Mike,

There is a final twist to the choice of battery, Shortly after I'd done the work on the battery box I came across another battery that would probably fit the exisiting Relaint box without any modifications, which would have saved doing all the fibreglass work....!

https://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorspo ... 30-battery

Mentioned here as it may be useful for others who need to make a similar modification and save you a bit of work.



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Post by fightingtorque » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:22 pm

I've not been following this excellent project for a while, it looks great.
The problems with hot air that you've described exactly match the way a previous car of mine ran - it was front wheel drive with twin weber carbs on the back of the engine and I was running it as a road car in shanghai, it also had aircon so that was extra heat in the underbonnet area. I more or less got rid of the problem by lagging the manifold and raising the rear edge of the bonnet about 15mm.

Even though this car is EFI, because you are injecting into the throttle bodies/ manifold, it is still working on the basis of fuel puddling in the manifold which is continously being replenished by the injection system. If all that fuel evaporates owing to the intake temperature going too high, the fuel vapour displaces a lot of air, which robs you of power, and meanwhile the AFR would be most likely wrong. Controlling the intake temperature should solve that, and I think going closed loop with the lambdas should help as well.

I think those strange carbon marks in your ports are related to fuel puddling and the EFI. The systems used up to the recent change to direct injection worked on the basis of targetting the injected fuel at the back of the inlet valve while it was closed, which heats the fuel and then the atomisation is achieved during the intake stroke as the fuel breaks up off the edge of the valve. Some injection systems "batch fire" meaning some cylinders are injected on open valve and some on closed, it gives the same power either way but the emissions are better on closed valve becuase the atomisation is actually better that way.

The atomosation of fuel from most conventional port injectors is not better than a carburettor, but the metering (control of fuel amount) is better especially with regards to providing different mixtures under different conditions and the vary accurate / alternating rich-lean control needed to work with a 3-way catalyst. So, I think you might benefit from experimenting with different fuel timing between different cylinders, if your ECU gives any control over this.

Gav



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Post by MikeyBikey » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:00 pm

Great work joe, you’ve also got the knack of telling a good story with your work.

Gav, enlightening. Does injecting lpg as a liquid suffer the same issues ?


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Post by Joe. » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:08 am

Hi Gav,

Funny you should mention exhaust wrapping and raising the bonnet for more airflow, I tried both of them last year in the run up to what became the HGF incident, In my case neither appeared to make an noticeable difference. I think thats quite telling about how hot the tubular manifolds were! I'd fitted the exhaust wrapping in the cool winter months and removed it again before the worst of the summer heat (you can catch a glimpse of it in first couple of pictures of my last post.) Its hard to know if it will would have helped against the worst of the summer heat, My gut instinct says that both measures were me treating the symptoms of an underlying problem rather than the cause!

Not entirely sure by what you mean by fuel puddling in the inlet manifold? The Post injector run to the cylinder is longer than you get on a more modern Multipoint injection system but my understanding is that fuel in the inlet should be atomising post injector and the ECU should trim the fuelling to suit the inlet air temperature. As fuel/air is subjected to ambient heat this should aid atomisation and there should not be any 'pooling' as such?

I have definitely considered that the soot marks on the head could be caused by the wasted spark ignition system. Its one of the reasons I'm currently in the process of moving to a sequential ignition system which will be triggered by the distributor drive. I'm also hoping that this may improve the fuel economy too. The last major holdup to this was ordering some new coil packs which I've actually done today! That’s been a slow burn project that started last year and will probably be the subject of a future post!

After all of these changes the car will be going back on the rolling road, for another setup session after which I'm hoping I can finally go back to driving it rather than working on it! There will probably be a further trip to the rolling road when i finally sort the air intake out!



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Post by Joe. » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:09 am

Headlining Replacement.

Ever since I've had the GTE Its had a horrible rip in the headlining around the base of the rear view mirror, Its always annoyed me a bit but for 7 years I put up with it. I struggled to find a photo showing the rip as I tended to frame any photos I took of the interior to deliberately leave it out.

This picture sort of shows it:

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I'd always intended to make up a patch in a period fabric and somehow cover it up. Possibly stitching it to the existing headliner in situ, and relying on the rear view mirror screw holes to hold it up.

With the windscreen out for the respray I finally decided to have a go at making a patch:

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After some experimenting i found it was surprisingly hard to get a patch that looked any good, there were problems with the contours of the roof, attachment to the existing headlining and generally how it worked aesthetically. The final versions involved backing vinyl onto wire a mesh backing and mounting it via the mirror mount with an additional mount point with a bracket created below the radio aerial.

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After staring at it for a while I eventually reached the conclusion that the entire 'patch' idea was a bit shit and I then took the old headliner down... Committed now!

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I"d seen a Scimitar headliner on eBay which was either new, or new old stock. I put a decent bid on it and was pretty sure I'd win it...

Inevitably someone else came along and outbid me, which left me with a problem. Do I buy an new headliner from a Scimitar specialist? Attempt a repair of the old headliner or try and make my own from scratch...?

The original headlining is an uncommon ribbed fabric in my 5a, I suspect its a nylon based synthetic fabric, woven to give the an interesting ribbed pattern. I'm pretty sure later cars had plain headlining straight from the factory, Probably a wool blend (nylon / wool without the ribbing) and were available in black on tan depending on the interior trim.

Close inspection of the old headliner showed it was thinner, more threadbare, faded and and moth eaten than expected, now it was off the car it was probably better to replace it completely.

I spent ages looking for a supplier who could offer a nylon / wool fabric that was a good match to the original (with woven ribbing naturally) and after many sample swatches I eventually concluded that it was very difficult to get something that closely matched the original.

Heres another look at that ribbed pattern;

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In the end I gave up on finding a suitable ribbed fabric and ordered the most premium 80% wool fabric sold by Martrim.

My mum is a professional seamstress ( though she's more used to working on costumes for the biggest names in film and television than making car headlining.) Fortunately for me she had a quiet spell between jobs and was able to help make and fit the new headlining. the old headlining became the template closely replicating the dimensions and construction method of the original.

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Supporting bars/ Rods

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Dry fitting:

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The headliner was left for a few days under tension to allow the wool to relax into position and and then it could be trimmed to size:

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It was then glued and re-tensioned,

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The critical part of tensioning a fabric headliner is to have a person each side to maintain tension as its glued and plenty of suitable pegs, The final result looks pretty good.

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After the headlining had gone in I was able to move onto sorting the a-pillar trims and the end result looks pretty good.

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There were also some small jobs to do like retirimming the interior light base so it matched the headliner:

Original:

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Cover peeled off the fibreglass moulding the gelcoat is black, its actually bare in this photo:

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Recovering:

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Fitted:

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After the headliner was finally in it was at last possible to refit the side windows. The seals were new in 2011 they are not perished but have distorted a bit, The chrome though is quite pitted and so I'm on the lookout for a set of clear side windows with decent frames.

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Cheers, Joe



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Post by Coupe Racing » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:47 am

The outside of the chrome trim can be fitted inside the car as they are not handed


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