Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:59 pm

scimjim wrote:There is no cable to the tacho.



I've just had this explained to me by a friend from elsewhere who also drives a Scim. I was under the impression it was a mechanical thing... it all suddenly becomes so much clearer now I know it's actually purely electrical and takes it's reading from the engine electrics. Pushes the odds far more in favour of a failing electrical something. I just need to work out what, and get it replaced.

Can't imagine it's anything to do with the rev counter's earth... unless the earthing cable has been shunted and snapped. I'll have to get a really good look at it now I know.

Earths in general... I'll have another look tomorrow. Most looked okay today but maybe I missed one or didn't look hard enough.

Fuse box... I did give it a good inspection today but with my crusty old wires I was reluctant to try and turn it over fully in case I broke a wire. Maybe I have to be a bit more rigorous tomorrow though.

Jim... RVC vs RVI: thanks for that post. I must have missed it earlier. I have no idea what either is, but I'll check those links after I've made supper. Much obliged to you all. I'll get there eventually with this.

Have to dash again now. Just been to watch my daughter's end of year performance as she's off to big school in September. I'm just off to the kitchen or I'll be living in the dumpster come September.
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:37 am

I've had a quick 'idiot's fiddle' this morning... just blindly slapping wires and yodelling into the void, generally caressing anything that looks electrical and making those whiny throat noises kids make for an hour after they learn they can't have an ice cream.

The upshot of that is that I have got my two inner full beam lamps to work again, so that's good.

I have dipped beam both sides on the outer lamps, but I only have a driver's side main beam. I've changed the bulb, I've grabbed all the wires and shaken them violently whilst screeching "WHY WONT YOU DO THIS FOR ME?" at them, and I've squirted face cream and lemon juice into various electrical holes... but I just can't get that passenger main beam to work.

So I returned to my fuse box. In terms of connections, it all seems fine. But as I force myself to concentrate and try to understand wires and stuff, I got the creeping suspicion that my fusebox is wired up entirely incorrectly. If so, then the fuse designations I'm fitting in to it in accordance witht he printed guidance below are all going to be incorrect. Main reason for this suspicion is that the main beam fuse holder doesn't even have any wires attached to the underside, and there aren't even any stray wires kicking around that might belong there.

One fuse got incredibly hot, and when I removed it, I checked all of my car's electrical stuff and it all still worked. So I'm mystified as to what that fuse might actually be for. It's meant to be for the lights but the lights, indicators, windows, horn, indicators all worked with it removed. Perhaps this fuse is wired to be solely for the passenger side main beam and maybe the hotness and the not-workingness are related somehow. I rubbed a passing cat on a few things but nothing seemed to happen so I've come back inside now to try and do some actual real work... once I've written this.

I'm also going to start a HELP ME thread to ask some Yes/No questions about my fusebox... just to grab the people who probably avoid my personal "build" thread like the plague.

I also had a blind fiddle about behind my rev counter. It's possible there may be a losse connection there, but I couldn't pop the dial out and it was ruddy difficult fiddling about without the risk of dislodging one of the other electrical things up there.

So I've taken a few shots of my fusebox and I hope to get some simple answers suitable for a simple man as to whether I'm even looking at a correct fusebox.

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Edit: Additional. The other thing I noticed as I fiddled with my headlamp wiring was that on the passenger side where the main beam isn't functioning, when I wobbled the wires about I occasionally lost the dip beam as well. It flickered on and off... so that indicates a loose connection I assume, but I can't find it anywhere yet.
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby fightingtorque » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:22 pm

Maybe the fuse that was hot is connected to a wire that has chafed through and is short to earth, thereby preventing it's actual item from working . You should be able to get the plug off the offending headlight and check with a multimeter, does it have 12V when the lights are on (I would expect not otherwise it would work), does it have continuity to earth (it shouldn't but it might), does it have continuity to said mystery fuse.
Also, the fuse that was hot, check whether it's outgoing terminal is short to earth.

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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:41 pm

Thanks FightingTorque... good things for me to check out. I'm ashamed to say I don't have a multimeter and never have, purely because my understanding of electrics is so pitiful that I really wouldn't even know how to use it or what it was telling me. I guess I need to get my big boy pants on and go and learn the mysterious art of multi-metering.

This confuses me about my fuse box. I have absolutely no sense at all of whether this is right, wrong, okay or not...

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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby rebel alliance » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:45 pm

E mailed Tim
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:52 pm

Cheers buddy!
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby philhoward » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:02 pm

Blue comment circle is original - one feed gets split to 2 fuses.

If you have an outer main then someone has added it which is surprisingly simple as it all goes to bullet connectors in the nose anyway so it's easy to pick up the main beam.

I would guess then yours had the Halogen wiring - 2 outer dips and 2 inner dips but at some point a dip/main outer has been added (sealed beam or Halogen), so they've wired it in.
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:14 pm

Here's what I have in my car...

Two outer lamps: These are switched on with the seesaw switch on my dashboard.
Each contains the smaller bulbs situated at the bottom of the bowl pointing up. Both of those come on as dipped beam (I'm assuming they are dipped beam).
Each also contains the bigger Lucas centre bulb that clips in from the back... inside the nose. I have a couple of spares of that bulb in the glove box so I have changed the one that doesn't work this morning, and as best as I can I've checked the connections in the little plastic connector box that slots on to the back of the bulb. It just doesn't work. if my memory serves me well, the bigger Lucas mean beam bulbs only had two wires going into the connection boxes that slot on to the back of the bulb.
I cannot recall how many wires lead to/from the smaller dipped beam bulbs.

Two inner lamps: These are switched on with the indicator stalk. Flick forwards and they are on. They don't seem to respond to the rearward 'flash only' movement of the stalk but I can live with that.
One bulb present in each. Full beam. I can't recall the amount of wires so I'll check next time.
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:23 pm

The penny has just dropped. Really what I'm looking at here is a shorting wire on the circuit somewhere that's hotting up the fuse and not supplying the bulb. I know that seems really obvious to you lot but than you FightingTorque because I now have something tangible to aim for next time I look.

I've just come across this pic of a Scimitar fusebox and it appears to be the same as mine. I'm scrutinising it for differences, and I'm also wondering what the purpose of that white electrical box is at the top of the picture - as I obviously have one of those too and I have NO IDEA what it's function is. Mine looks a bit shabby. The rest of the pic shows me things that are unfamiliar and don't look like my car, but I'm not going to worry about that just now.

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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:22 pm

Right... my hot fuse appears to be dedicated solely to the indicators. My hazards still work when it's removed, as do my wipers and washers (I believe these should all be on the same fuse but maybe I have misunderstood) and I don't have heaters. So... I seem to have indicators on a fuse of their own. Because of their fuse's location in my fuse box, I have a 15amp fuse in there (the one that's getting hot to the touch).

Could this be getting hot because indicators apparently require a 50amp fuse? Is there some kind of resistance/back-up that occurs if you put the wrong fuse in a circuit that isn't currently doing anything, or am I barking up the wrong dog with that theory?

I can't find any 50amp fuses locally to me, so I'm wondering if I might get away with swapping the hot 15amp in that slot for my next best option of 35amps. I don't want to mess about though and do anything silly that starts a fire, so if somebody could advise me whether it's okay to put a 35amp glass fuse where a 50amp seemingly needs to be for my indicators - from a safety perspective -I'd be eternally grateful.
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:42 pm

Okay... srap all that up there. I'm going to have place my car under the temporary designation of "Fire hazard". Fiddling about with it has now resulted in a wavering whining pitch coming from underneath the dashboard when I turn the key. So as always with electrics I'm just getting deeper in to mess here and likely to end up with an unsafe car. It's never whined like that before. Can't for the life of me think what could do that other than a wire singing it's head off because it's going into melt-down. No smells though, just a feint dentists drill noise.

Thanks for all help so far, but I'll take my problem offline now and go and find somebody who can help me locally.

Video of the noise here. The second key turn starts my fuel pump and the whining note changes pitch at that point...

https://vid.me/h84RA

Damn I HATE electrics. I HATE THIS STUFF.
Last edited by AnotherTim on Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby philhoward » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:44 pm

Glass fuse ratings are dual listed - for example a 35A fuse is actually 17.5A/35A which is 17.5A running, 35A blowing current.

The whining noise isn't a fan, is it? They normally sit in the sides of the foot wells but anything is possible with yours.
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:48 pm

philhoward wrote:Glass fuse ratings are dual listed - for example a 35A fuse is actually 17.5A/35A which is 17.5A running, 35A blowing current.


Cheers Phil, I'm always grateful for yours and everyone's help. Sadly... I can't understand a word of that hahaha. I was hoping to know whether it was safe to use a 35amp where a 50amp ought to be. But with the new development of the whining noise I've disconnected the battery, locked the doors, and it's just going to have to sit there until I can find somebody to help me. I'm not getting any deeper into this mess.

philhoward wrote:The whining noise isn't a fan, is it? They normally sit in the sides of the foot wells but anything is possible with yours.


No, it's a weird, very quiet, completely new whistling noise when nothing but electrics are activated. No fan, no stereo... nothing that would make that noise. It's only inside the cab, and comes from behind the dashboard. I checked in case it was coming from the engine bay but it was absolutely silent out there. here's a vid of the actual noise...

https://vid.me/h84RA

I switched various things on and off to see if it killed the noise. I fondled all the wires. No difference... just a wavering but constant whining noise.

Utterly utterly mystified now. I really truly HATE electrics.
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby AnotherTim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:00 pm

philhoward wrote:Glass fuse ratings are dual listed - for example a 35A fuse is actually 17.5A/35A which is 17.5A running, 35A blowing current.


Now I'm pondering this as I throw a hastily prepared sandwich down my throat.

If the indicators are meant to have a 50amp fuse, then what you seem to be saying is that it is actually running at 25amps, and will blow at 50amps.

So I can speculate that a 35amp fuse is designed to run at 17.5 amps and will blow if it hits 35amps.

And therefore... if I put a 35amp fuse in it is just within the tolerance of a 50amp (25amp) running on an optimal circuit. So it should be okay, but is more likely to blow sooner if there was a surge or some such than its 50amp brother would.

Is that right?
Last edited by AnotherTim on Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Se5a Rolling rejuvenation project

Postby scimjim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:01 pm

AnotherTim wrote:..... and I'm also wondering what the purpose of that white electrical box is at the top of the picture - as I obviously have one of those too and I have NO IDEA what it's function is. Mine looks a bit shabby.


Voltage stabiliser - provides a stable 10v to the fuel and temp gauges only.
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