Trying to start...after a year or two

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747PETE
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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by 747PETE » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:09 pm

Hello guys,yes I am still here😀 Now,at long last I have got round to starting the SE5A after a longish lay up.Although the whole fuel system has been renewed,I have rigged up a separate little supply with a return line too.I do not want to put fuel in all the new steel lines and tank etc because it will still be at least a year before she is back on the road again.I have fuel entering the bores but no spark whatsoever at the king lead.It was getting dark when I stopped so tommorow weather permitting.I have a new 12 volt non ballast coil all new leads ,rotor arm,cap etc from Burton ,plugs et all,I have taken the eureka wire out of circuit and run a new +be supply to the coil and it is live when switched on,I did fit an Accuspark system a couple of years ago...did not test it at the time as the dash and loom was being attended to.So this is what I intend to do,tell me if I am missing anything please😀 I will check I have 12volts at the +ve coil when cranking,then check if I also have continuity on and of at the -ve side from the distributor,if I do not,there is the issue.If I do,I guess it’s check the timing,I I’ll find tdc on #1 then mark the timing cover accordingly.It has to be something very basic amiss here,any ideas greatly appreciated. A snap of her when I recovered her 5 years ago,alas a few flaky areas now as she has sat outside all the time but at last most of the work is complete...it’s just life that has got in the way! Nice to be back again...Pete..older and greyer😉
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Roger Pennington
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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by Roger Pennington » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:14 pm

Hi Pete, glad you're still about! :)
I suspect you're getting a bit ahead of yourself with some of that? If you haven't got a spark at the king lead, then timing is irrelevant - timing is concerned with distributing the spark delivered from the king lead, into the individual spark plug leads, at the right point in the engine cycle. So where you say "if I do not,there is the issue", That's the point beyond which you can't progress, until you've got that spark. I'm not an electrical guru, but I think what I would do is disconnect coil -ve then attach a wire to it, and then (with the ignition on so the coil receives 12v at the +ve) briefly touch it to earth. That should give you a spark. If it does, then maybe the acuspark doesn't work - have you got some points you could refit to try instead?


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747PETE
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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by 747PETE » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:12 am

Yes indeed Roger,I should have phrased that better,I have spent a lot of time this last Summer retiring a few MGBs to a non-standard ballast less system.All at the owners requests,then retimed many of them.So the timing is not the issue yet.This particular Scim has a huge history file of problem starting.It had a great deal of work done in the past by I.D. Racing and some strange wiring on the ignition side.I will do a quick check viz the coil -ve.I want to have good look at where the 12 volt supply comes off the starter solenoid and then the 12v ....ballasted...from the ignition key.It has had a separate ballast fitted,so there must have been an issue with the eureka wire,that will be easy enough to check with a meter.I am going back to basics on this one..I have to get spark at the King lead first.Thanks for the quick reply👍👍.



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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by Oldconn » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:10 pm

After standing around all that time, I'll bet most electrical junctions and connections are oxidised, maybe even corroded - especially the earth connections. Recent conversations on here have been talking about the importance of the distributor being earthed, especially the base-plate and the carrier. I would be tempted to renew the distributor cap also.


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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by 747PETE » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:40 pm

Indeed,though I havegradually worked through many of the problems with a “got at” wiring loom etc.The whole front end retired with correct colour/rated wire,relays on lights,cooling fan..new..etc.The rear loom all refurbished and the lamp units all rebuilt regards filament holders,all the earths renewed.The lighting circuit,indicators et all now work pretty well.I have had the dash out and gone through all of that too.You would be amazed what I came across..i.e. overdrive solenoid wire had a new wire run ..it went over the prop shaft🙄 and through a sharp edged hole in the fibre glass floor.The only loom I have not gone right through is the ignition switch to starter solenoid/switch to coil etc.There was a separate ignition ballast fitted to the flitch,it looked as if it had been fitted to the eureka loom🙄 .I have fittednew main earth leads where required.The distributor base plate is a good call,I remember Robin Rewe talking about that years ago.In fact the previous owner’s garage..I.D.Racing..fitted a secondhand distributor...not cheap either! I will have a good look when the rain stops,the car always lives outside.All the ignition leads/cap/rotor arm/coil /plugs etc are new via Burton.Thanks for this help guys👍👍



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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by Old and Slow » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:07 pm

Hi Pete,
IF it has been standing all that time the points might have seized and be sticking open. In the thread above you haven't mentioned anything about looking inside the distributor and that is the first place I'd look.
With the dizzy cap off you should still get a spark on the king lead from the coil to an earth point if you use a screwdriver to push close and open the points (assuming the dizzy cam is turned to a "flat" point and not resting against the heel of the points fibre bit).
Hope this helps, good luck with the project.


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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by 747PETE » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:47 pm

I still have the ..new..Accuspark system fitted.Once this damp stuff stops falling out of the sky I will do a simple test,there is switched power on the +ve side of the coil,I will run a separate -ve lead to it,on/off and see if I get a spark from the Kinglead.That will prove the coil side of things,I do need to check with a meter to see if in fact I am getting the full 12volts at the switched side when he ignition is switched to the run position,that will prove the eureka wire has been removed or in fact bypassed at least.



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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by 747PETE » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:08 pm

O.K. gradually working through this conundrum.I have good continuity from the starter solenoid up to the coil +ve and a healthy 12 volts from the ignition switch to the coil+ve,so someone has in fact bypassed or removed the eureka wire.I have a new 12 volt coil.Taking the Accuspark out of the situation,with ignition on,not turning over,just on the run position,12 volt at coil +ve then I have a separate wire from coil -ve that I flick very rapidly to battery -ve,a little spark at a plug connected to the kinglead and earthed on the block,then nothing at all.I have tried again with the distributor connected via the Accuspark..no spark.There is a good earth within the distributor on the base plates etc.My next port of call will be to fit points and condenser.Surely though,I should get a spark by manually flicking that earth? All help gratefully received!



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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by Old and Slow » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:12 pm

As you say, every time you earth and unearth(?) the -ve side of the coil you should get a spark on the king lead.
The big spark should be when you break the circuit, as the stored magnetic field in the coil collapses.
If the spark is disappearing then either there is a dodgy connector in the +ve feed that is failing after some current flows through it, or the coil itself is not doing it's job, or the bit of HT lead from the coil to the spark plug is failing. I assume the plug spark gap is to spec.?


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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by Old and Slow » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:17 pm

I should also have said, the eureka wire will not have any effect until some current flows. You need to check the voltage on the +ve coil terminal when you have the -ve terminal connected to earth (static, not spinning the engine etc). There should be about 2 amperes flowing, and the voltage on the coil +ve will drop to about 8 or 9 volts if the eureka wire or some other resistor is in the circuit. It will stay at 12v if there is no resistor in the circuit.
Hope this helps.


Philip Needham
Ashley-bodied TR3; '54 Ford Consul; '55 AC 2-Litre Saloon;'65 850 Mini; '70 Ford Zodiac MkIV; XR3i
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Trying to start...after a year or two

Post by 747PETE » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:23 pm

I managed to test the new coil today between rain showers.I swopped it over on my other Classic and it works perfectly well.So tommorow,I will put it back in circuit and fit some new contact points and a condenser back into the distributor and see what we have.



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