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Post by MikeyBikey » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:38 pm

I wonder if, at this rate, one day transporting ourselves around will be an inconvenience and everything will be virtual. Fat blobs sat on our couches imagining everything is real.

except beer


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Post by drcdb15 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:49 pm

philhoward wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:25 pm
who’s going to magic up all the electric to charge them in the first place? One thing I’ve not found a definitive answer to is if all the “free”/renewable energy gets stolen by the battery chargers, what’s the effect if it doesn’t hit its intended destination (slowing tides/stopping sunlight hitting the ground/sea)?
Nuclear. AIUI we are already in a situation where growth in world population is so fast that the only possible viable option to maintain current levels of demand (for domestic, industry etc, never mind electric cars) is nuclear, in the short term, as it's not viable to build renewables conversion infrastructure fast enough - you would get there in the end, but there would be years, maybe decades, before capacity caught up with demand, largely because conversion efficiency of renewables such as wind, tidal etc is so tiny, cf nuclear which is close on 100%.

And this answers your second question - what is the effect of 'taking out' the renewable energy from its source. The answer is nothing much that you could detect. The energy balances on the planet as a whole are so immense that the total human energy element is vanishingly small. Energy on Earth comes from two sources - geothermal from cooling of the planet's core, and radiation from the Sun. All other energy sources ultimately derive from these two. And iirc the bulk of the energy from both of these is simply lost by radiation and reflection into space. Humans can take out pretty much all they would ever want and the only effect will be that the planet cools infinitesimally more slowly. You only have to look at the lava flows from any recent volcanic eruption to see the energy content of the planet as a whole is way bigger than humans could ever hope to capture, much less control. What we might want to take out to charge our cars will not change the course of natural history.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Featu ... /page6.php


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Post by Alan SS1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:58 pm

philhoward wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:25 pm
“Change my batteries because I don’t have enough time to wait for a recharge” is already online, I thought?
?
I thought so too, :? but cannot remember which car company proposed it, maybe the ones from the 80's that GM? took back and (mostly) crushed :(

I think that Jim's comment about Tax 'will happen' and Peter's comment WILL have to be addressed (if not nuclear, what else, cos the coal burners are being demolished)


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Post by toolmanchris » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Think that Renault was proposing that for their Zoe a few years ago?


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Post by scimjim » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:10 pm

The idea of replacing the complete battery pack is decades old - fine for production cars but at odds with the idea of converting existing ICE vehicles which would need specific packaging?


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Post by scimjim » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:38 pm

Here's a new study that doesn't ignore the manufacture and disposal of batteries like every previous report I've read has.


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Post by scimjim » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:44 pm

drcdb15 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:14 pm
There is no doubt the re-fuelling technology is an issue for electric, but when folks talk about the 'charging infrastructure', most are thinking of mere extension of what we are already used to today - 13 amp sockets and appliances plugged in using a flexible lead.

It doesn't take much thought to appreciate that this will be wholly inappropriate for electric cars - for one thing, people such as high rise dwellers won't have a 200 metre long cable to drape out of their 24th floor window to their car down outside at street level. Also, car recharging currents will put a huge strain on the domestic wiring, and re-wiring a nation of around 30 million dwellings isn't going to happen overnight. Then there's the issue of taxation - the government takes 5% VAT on domestic electricity, and they will certainly want a lot more than that to replace fuel duty when we're all using electric cars. But how will anyone know what electricity has been used to charge the car, and what has been used to power the lounge lights and the telly?
Actually, every street has an existing infrastructure that could easily be expanded to allow charging points at every parking space or garage - our street lighting system operates from a 3 phase network already - particularly in town/cities which is where it's primarily needed first.


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Post by philhoward » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:04 pm

Most street lighting runs off 3-phase (only one phase at a time, of course) and as councils switch over from incandescent lighting to LED, there's probably sufficient capacity in the existing wiring.

Where the actual energy comes from is another matter - given the amount of time a car is actually used though, it's an ideal candidate for the sporadic nature of renewables (solar/wind).


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Post by TrevorG » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:34 pm

Here is my penniesworth, you may disagree!
I welcome city vehicle charges. Personally don't understand why city dwellers need their own car, except for fun. Obviously all public transport, cycleways etc. need to be improved.
In the country, and as a farmer? Nah :!: I need a vehicle that will tow, drive up a 1 in 4, allow me to throw in the back....tractor bits, scimitar engine :lol: , sheep, shit, tools etc. etc. Drive to market, tip, friends etc. A full day's charge ( no garages here have electric points) I'm waiting for the vehicle that'll do that. Oh and the scimitar is the only vehicle i have ever afforded new!
Perhaps I'm asking too much?



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