Potential SS1 Rebody?

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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:28 pm

[Mod edit - this thread split from here Advice on buying a Sabre, as had drifted off the point a bit! ]


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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by scimjim » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:47 pm

philhoward wrote:Unless someone is very clever with the filler, then you'd always have the join at the windscreen pillars, so making it look diffferent anyway? The tub is different (SS1 to SST/Sabre), so if this was to go ahead, then I assume it would only fit an SS1 tub anyway?! There is also the context of what might (or might not) have to be done around the front armature so I think it would be very tricky to try and pass one off as a genuine Sabre? I suspect the SS1 inner wings might have to remain anyway?
Depends if you retained the existing tub I suppose (which may be the simplest approach) - likewise inner wings but I would try to lose the armatures and obviously there would be some headlight work (fixed items?).


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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by steve bryant » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:40 am

an excellent time to fit modern parts in place of unobtainable, as in the windscreen, window channels,etc. or is that going too far



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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by scimjim » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:42 am

Windscreens are readily available, so not a priority (also depends on previously discussed use of existing tub and angle of quarter lights and frames) but composite side window channels are already on the drawing board Independant of any body mods :-)


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Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by Roger Pennington » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:58 am

Doesn't losing the armatures (and the inner wings) have quite a large impact on the scope of the project? One of the theoretical (though sadly unrealised) advantages of the SS1 concept was the fact that the outer panels were unstressed and bolt-on, allowing quick changes of the outer "skin" to effect changes in design. This *should* have given Reliant the ability to respond quickly to criticism of the styling of the SS1 by introducing new designs of outer body panels. In reality they were (I suspect) too heavily committed to the original ones.
I think there may be a danger that you'll end up with a concept which, while undoubtedly excellent, will exceed what it's viable to spend on updating an SS1.

For me, I would have thought that a series of bolt-on panels, fitting onto the existing armatures, but with round wheel arches with a Sabre-like flare, smooth sides, a rounded front (possibly with integrated non-pop-up headlights), a smoother rear, and doors without the "scooped-out" centre window area, would make a huge difference to the look of the car, while still having at least a chance of staying within the bounds of affordability. :)


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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by scimjim » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:30 am

As you point out Roger, the quick change outer skin concept (later used to better effect by SMART) never really emerged. Bolt on panels is obviously the simplest approach but that does require a lot of moulds (2 doors, 4 wings, bonnet, bootlid, nose, headlight panel, rear light panel and fuel cap panel - some of which could be merged into one) which must have accurate lines or you end up with another SS1 :-) whereas another (probably cheaper) option may simply be a front and rear clip with bootlid, bonnet and possibly doors? :-)


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
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1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by minibull » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:39 pm

A smartened up SS1 doesn't seem to bad an idea (though personally I like the original) but I wouldn't want a SST/Sabre replica.Something along the lines of the red SS1 that was on e-bay a while ago, but with shrouded h/lights and wings running over the top using SST bonnet would appeal more to me as it retains the basic shape of the SS1 whilst tidying the cluttered side view.I was going to make front and rear sections as per the later small sports ,also won't devalue genuine Sabres' which I suspect a surfeit of replicas may.Only my opinion of course and I had already got plans in place to make my own,only 2 Bond Bugs to restore before I can get started. Of course you could go for some thing completly different here's one I drew awhile ago based on an ASA 613 Rollbar (google it ) which has been my dream car since I got the Observer book of cars as a 10 year old. The original was GRP construction as well, unfortunaly I suspect it's well beyond my mould making abilities Image
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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by Roger Pennington » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:04 pm

Yes, Jim, I think you're right that shut lines are always a problem and have always been the SS1's bête noire (that's why the TVR Griffith was such a great design). However the SS1 really compounds the problem by echoing the dodgy shut lines in the eyebrow ridges and furrows on the wings which mean there are a multitude of additional discordant lines. Add that to the non-round (angular) wheel arches, which almost *never* work IMHO, then you've got a bit of a styling disaster.

The channel islands car (which I suspect is the one that minibull is referring to?) is for me a model of how much improvement can be made with relatively simple changes, especially if you remove some of it's more "bling" accessories. If you added Pete Silcock's faired-in lights and perhaps a more flowing nose and tail section, then that could point the way forward, at a not too extreme cost. Here it is without the bling:
New SS1 b.jpg
New SS1 b.jpg (164.77 KiB) Viewed 2100 times
Moving the bonnet shut line onto the top would obviously be a further improvement, though it would also increase the complexity.

Cost is always going to be an issue, because if the cost of your upgrade is too close to (or exceeds) the cost difference, people will say, "well I may as well buy a Sabre" (alright, I know in reality there aren't very many of those, but I don't think that will stop people thinking that?)


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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by scimjim » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:09 pm

minibull wrote:.....but I wouldn't want a SST/Sabre replica.
minibull wrote:.....I was going to make front and rear sections as per the later small sports
not sure what you mean by this Mick? surely SST/Sabre front & rear sections makes it into an SSt/Sabre replica?

Certainly not looking at making something that looks like a 50s/60s sports car.


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Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by minibull » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:29 pm

By as per SST/Sabre I meant wings/nose etc as one peice mouldings not style.Roger is correct the SS1 I was referring to is the one he has pictured and I've done a quick edit to move bonnet shut and shroud headlights.Image. I wasn't expecting you to make a 60's replica the point I was trying to make though possibly badly was that a rebodied small sports doesn't have look like any existing model,it could be retro as per my drawing or brought bang up to date.
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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by CNHSS1 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:59 pm

for me, the deeper 'chin' of the mk2 sabre improves the gauky look of the ss1 and to a lesser extent sst and mk1 sabres. Also improves the stablility at high speed (is there any other speed??!) without the undercut.

as has been said elsewhere on here, raising the door top line to bring inline with bonnet and rear scuttle/bootlid height, effectively reduces the 'glass house' height, which was on Reliants list of jobs for the sabre mk3. A step further is to raise the whole bonnet line and that of the bootlid/scuttle too, effectively increasing under bonnet and boot space (increased practicality?!), again an idea nicked from the work reliant had already done (the sabre re-designs that someone posted a few months ago and i assume in slice?). Thats a diffficult one to pull off as the rest of the package has to be right or it makes the proportions right, but the correct wheel opening dimensions will help balance it out and potentially loss of, or redesign of, the side swage.

a redsign of the hardtop wouldnt go amiss either, in the scheme of a rebody, its only another moulding afterall. a more rounded profile at the rear, sort of wraparound, would reduce the gaukiness of the current hardtop imho. Think Mk3 MX5 shape, but with a simple smaller flat (glass with heated element??) rear window, nicked from a modern donor car? The Sabre/SST hoods hada simpler hood window, without the rear quaterlight plastic panels. No less efecetive in tersm of visibilty, as the roll bar/headrests are in teh way, but cleans up the lines no end (and less to go 'milky' over the years!)

i think that running boards or sill covers would update the design as per the later sabres too. easy to fit to any SS car too.

it may be worth looking at wheel arch dimensiosn too, maybe pick an easily availble wheel in say 16" or 17" (new Mini with spacers or something from the VW Polo/golf 4 stud range, Rover 100mm pcd etc). Modern cars typically use laregr rolling radius rubber as part of the package design (not just cosmetic) and even the most modern body re-design on 14"/60 series or 15"/50 series rubber instantly drags the car back 10-15 years imho.


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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by scimjim » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:42 pm

see what you mean Mick - it has to look like an existing model to my mind, otherwise it's just another kit car?

I take it you mean the Judge design study Craig (with my old Sabre)?

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Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by CNHSS1 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:32 pm

Yup :-)


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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by scimjim » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:51 pm

can't say I like a single line on that - but the higher bonnet does disguise the deep windscreen well.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Re: Potential SS1 Rebody?

Post by scimjim » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:55 pm

think it's worth adding those pics again for discussion:
Judge 4.jpg
Judge 4.jpg (308.05 KiB) Viewed 2039 times
Judge 2.jpg
Judge 2.jpg (476.82 KiB) Viewed 2039 times
Judge 1.jpg
Judge 1.jpg (358.75 KiB) Viewed 2039 times


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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