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GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:40 pm
by DARK STAR
Rain (lack of) is a sore point round here :mrgreen:
I'm not complaining while Dark Star is stuck in the garden.

Tried the newly-fixed exhaust, the engine note has changed from tractor to pussy cat.
Tappets are noisy but I haven't the patience to do them again.

Looked up the price of heat-shield material, only about 100 euros more than I expected :pc
So, plan B is to loosen the engine mounts and jack the engine up on the right, thus lowering it on the left.
Is that practical?

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:03 pm
by Roger Pennington
DARK STAR wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:40 pm
So, plan B is to loosen the engine mounts and jack the engine up on the right, thus lowering it on the left.
Is that practical?
I've done that with an Essex, and it worked. Not a huge difference of alignment, just enough to stop the exhaust touching on one side :)

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:10 pm
by DARK STAR
The wire glue arrived, I stuck the resistance back in place and reassembled everything.
The choke still doesn't work.

In an attempt to understand I took everything to bits again.
On the mechanical side I see that the cold idle adjuster does not work on a cam but on a step, which is removed by the bi-metallic coil when it turns.
The coil also turns the choke butterfly spindles.

The electrical side is impossible to decipher.
The electric choke heater which activates the coil works almost instantly to open the choke butterflies (close the choke).
Which is not good, and is evidently because one of the heater resistances receives 12v direct from the alternator connection :?: :!:
The other heats up gradually from the sender on the engine, this is logical.
Why are there two resistances, Webers only have one (presumably of the second type).
And why are they fed permanently even when the ignition is off, this can't be right?
(This could also be the reason my battery goes flat overnight if not disconnected :roll: )

My next step will be to put insulation tape on the permanent contact and see if I can adjust everything to work with ONE variable choke heater 8)
Stay tuned ...

PS I note also that the two +ve feeds (permanent and variable) can be reversed on the plug/socket, but I don't see that this would make any difference, they are both glued to the body of the coil heater.

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:14 pm
by AJL Electronics
You could just go for a 38DGAS and be done with it?

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:16 pm
by scimjim
That's what most people do when the Pierburg goes wrong. It shouldn't be fed constant voltage. The alternator supply should close the choke butterflies when you start, the coolant sensor should open them slowly as it warms up.

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:02 pm
by DARK STAR
The bi-metallic coil closes the butterflies when it is cold.
Both heating elements are glued to the body of the coil heater so have exactly the same effect, opening the butterflies.
To what should the alternator permanent supply be connected?
All looks original in my choke, I wonder if there's anything missing that might explain this anomalie.

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:03 pm
by scimjim
So you’ve decided that they’re heating elements acting on a single coil?

That doesn’t make any sense at all.

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:08 pm
by DARK STAR
I know it doesn't make sense. I also know it doesn't work 8)
But it used to before the garage got at it ...
This is what it looks like.

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:11 pm
by scimjim
That looks more like the elements are acting on different sides - so the alternator closes it and the temp sensor opens it as it warms up (as per book other than the single/double coil).

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:27 am
by DARK STAR
The idea of an electric choke is already ridiculous - which idiot had the idea of sticking a sensor in the water that when it heats sends an electric current to heat an element to turn a coil in the carburettor which operates the butterflies and opens the throttle :shock:
Difficult to think of anything more complicated ... apart from the idea that one should use another element to turn the coil the other way :mrgreen:

Assuming it IS a bi-metallic coil it can only turn one way when it heats.
The whole choke body heats up and it seems to be solid, no way to open it to see if there is a mechanism inside.
And if there is a mechanism why is there a long coil instead of a short lever?

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:09 pm
by DARK STAR
This seems to work, road test booked for tomorrow 8)
Just one heating element connected (guess which!)
Some adjustment will probably be necessary but a first test was fine.
Obviously can't do a second test until it cools down.
If it is ok I will find a switched feed instead of the permanent live of the alternator which is a really daft arrangement.

The other photos are of the choke mechanism
1/ butterflies closed and idle control on the step
2/ butterflies open and idle control off the step
The sticky-out lever on the right / top right is what the coil pushes round.
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GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:26 pm
by AJL Electronics
The Alternator isn't a permanent feed, it should only be live whilst the engine is running.

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:27 pm
by DARK STAR
Mine is ...

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:38 pm
by DARK STAR
... but then, the diode is knackered, that would explain it :lol:

GTC Vert Soleil

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:39 pm
by DARK STAR
So of course I forgot to disconnect the battery today :roll:
I started and ran the car, the choke worked as intended but needs adjusting.
Which I did a bit, then left it to cool several hours.
Only of course the choke heater was still working.
And I can tell you, thanks to my laser thermometer :wink: that the sender is still giving 12v when the temperature is down to 35º.
The engine will not idle without the choke until it gets up to 50º.
We'll try again tomorrow ...