GTC Vert Soleil

Project Progress for our European Members

Moderators: scimjim, Roger Pennington, Lukeyboy46, philhoward, erikscimitardemon

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:46 pm

Sounds good Roger - but who would have an infra-red thermometer?


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:52 pm

To answer my own question ...
do you think this will work long enough and accurately enough to do the job - seems very cheap 8)
https://www.amazon.fr/Etekcity-1080-The ... infrarouge
Attachments
Capture d’écran 2017-09-24 à 22.49.17.png
Capture d’écran 2017-09-24 à 22.49.17.png (251.32 KiB) Viewed 499 times


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 18809
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 399 times

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by Roger Pennington » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:15 pm

They're quite cheap and readily available these days. A year or two ago Lidl were doing them for about £18, and there are any number of fleabay suppliers who have them, also people like Amazon. Also, like a lot of technology, the price gets cheaper all the time too.

They are useful for all sorts of things - checking if your radiator is blocked, whether your thermostat is stuck, whether you are *really^ overheating, and so on.

I feel that even if the temp is only accurate to a couple of degrees, it's better than you can detect with your fingers, which makes it worthwhile, and I've checked with a few known items, and they actually seem to be pretty accurate. :)


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:46 am

Ok, ordered one, if it arrives in time and shows a reasonable temperature I might just make the Scimitar Sortie next weekend 8)

In the meantime I put the car over the pit to see why the handbrake didn't work.
It seems the garage during their road testing use the handbrake instead of the footbrake to stop with (because it would cut out constantly at low revs so they needed to keep a foot on the accelerator ???)
The adjuster at the lever end was already as short as it would go so I just changed holes to give more movement.
Simple once you get the split pin out :|
At least you can get a hand in and still almost see what you are doing, unlike a Coupé.


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:09 am

Still waiting, I tried to work out the electric choke which of course doesn’t correspond to the wiring diagram!

I have from the alternator a blue/white wire which joins a blue/red wire which feeds 12v+ to the temperature sensor AND to the choke connection.
There is also a blue/black wire which feeds at cold 0v+ from the sensor to the choke.

This doesn’t seem very logical to me, and certainly doesn’t match Peter's diagram, however it all looks original and the choke worked on the previous engine.
The wiring diagram in the Reliant manual doesn't even show an electric choke so that's not a lot of help.
Any ideas?


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 33751
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 630 times

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by scimjim » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:10 am

There's no wiring diagram in the 6b/GTC supplement but the choke is explained on page 16: there are two bi-metallic coils in the choke. One is fed 12v direct from the alternator to heat the coil as soon as the engine starts (slowly opening the choke). The second coil is fed via the sender on top of the engine - opening the choke as the engine coolant warms up.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 33751
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 630 times

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by scimjim » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:14 am

Just looked at Peter's wiring diagram and apart from your change in colours it's correct (need more owners to confirm that's factory) - could perhaps be amended to show two bi-metallic coils?


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:41 pm

I checked the output of the sensor, 0v+ cold and 12v+ hot, seems correct.
I didn't have the impression that there were two coils, but I haven't a photo to remind me.
The one I saw operates the choke butterflies correctly.
What I did photograph was what is apparently an adjuster for the choke slow-running speed -
but I can't see how to adjust it without taking the carb off :roll:
I adjusted at the bottom with the little knurled knob but of course this is just the throttle stop and when warm the engine then idles at 1200 rpm ...
DSCF1153 (1).jpg
DSCF1153 (1).jpg (287.8 KiB) Viewed 345 times
DSCF1154 (1).jpg
DSCF1154 (1).jpg (453.9 KiB) Viewed 345 times


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:37 am

The thermometer arrived, very neat and easy to use as long as you ignore the instructions.

And ...... I think we have a result :hurrah: :hurrah: :hurrah:
After a medium run (but further than I was thinking because I've only just realised the milometer reads in - miles :lol: )
Temperatures
Coil 60º
Rocker covers 83º
Engine in the V 108º

Now I can concentrate on the choke mechanism.
And the rocker cover gaskets.
And the exhaust manifold gaskets.
And the filthy state the car is in after being immobilised in the garden.
Incidentally this last point proved something positive (and unusual) - in the torrential rain we had the other day not a drop got into the car.
Hardtop obviously, not the hood :wink:


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

User avatar
toolmanchris
RSSOC Member
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:34 pm
Location: Doncaster
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by toolmanchris » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:34 am

DARK STAR wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:41 pm
I checked the output of the sensor, 0v+ cold and 12v+ hot, seems correct.
I didn't have the impression that there were two coils, but I haven't a photo to remind me.
The one I saw operates the choke butterflies correctly.
What I did photograph was what is apparently an adjuster for the choke slow-running speed -
but I can't see how to adjust it without taking the carb off :roll:
I adjusted at the bottom with the little knurled knob but of course this is just the throttle stop and when warm the engine then idles at 1200 rpm ...

DSCF1153 (1).jpgDSCF1154 (1).jpg
If its the screw inside the auto choke body cant you manually operate the lever to rotate the head upwards. That might allow you to turn it?


Chris Barker
http://www.toolmanweb.com/scimitar
RSSOC: 4125

Yellow SE5a - currently undergoing restoration
BMW Z4 in Maldives Blue - daily driver
Silver Hyundai SantaFe 2.2 - for pulling the caravan

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:49 pm

Good thinking!
I screwed it up half a turn, screwed the throttle stop down half a turn, and it is much better.
But now the butterflies don't close when cold-starting :|
That's not too serious round here but I think I'd better have a closer look.
As far as I can see there is only one coil and the cold-slow-running adjuster works on a cam which moves with the throttle butterflies - except that now I've adjusted it the throttle butterflies don't move.
I may be able to adjust that in turn by rotating the round choke-actuating thingie.

More positive on the oil leaks, the garage seem to have forgotten to tighten the screws of the rocker covers :shock:
As in not even finger-tight.
And they have replaced one of the allen cap screws with a stupid torx screw for which I haven't a driver.
An allen key one size smaller luckily did the job, hopefully no more leaks.

I wonder if the manifold gasket leak is for the same reason - the engine was too hot to investigate this afternoon.


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:32 pm

Hmm, not consistent this choke business.
I decided to take it all to bits to see why.
One of the little round contacts has fallen off the round casing, one can see where it should be.
The other one has little or no resistance to the casing.
I still don't understand how this electric choke works, perhaps I should look at page 16 of the 6b manual as Jim says.
What are the little round things?
If I stick the other one back (WITH WHAT - does superglue conduct electricity?) will it all work again?

And the leaking exhaust manifold gaskets are well tightened so I'm going to have fun there.
I see on the other side the garage have stuck it all together with gun gum ...
DSCF1158.jpg
DSCF1158.jpg (285.78 KiB) Viewed 233 times


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

User avatar
Old and Slow
RSSOC Member
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:37 pm
Location: East Berks
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 22 times

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by Old and Slow » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:52 pm

I've no idea what I'm looking at! :shock:
But you can buy conductive glue, which might solve the problem. Available from Amazon etc.


Philip Needham
Ashley-bodied TR3; '54 Ford Consul; '55 AC 2-Litre Saloon;'65 850 Mini; '70 Ford Zodiac MkIV; XR3i
'81 911SC Targa, '64 Sabre Six

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:38 am

Thanks Philip.
I've no idea either, I can tell you it is the innards of the electric choke normally hidden behind the coil spring but how it works and what might be inside the casing is anyone's guess.
I'll get the manual out later for more clues.


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

User avatar
DARK STAR
RSSOC Member
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Antibes, France
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

GTC Vert Soleil

Post by DARK STAR » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:46 pm

I've just realised I have no 6b supplement in my genuine 1979 Reliant manual :roll:
However I have a Sierra 2,8 manual (with 2,9 supplement!) and the wiring diagram shows clearly the two little round things which are resistances - and therefore heating elements ...
Still haven't the faintest idea how it works but if I stick it all back together like it was before the garage got at it perhaps it will be ok.
I'm pleased to say I was right about the choke idle adjuster cam but don't see how the rest of this complicated mechanism operates.

Latest idiocy discovered, the exhaust on one side is only attached with one rubber ring - and on the other side it is jammed hard against the underside of the car.
It wasn't like this before, I wonder if the rubber rings are correct.


Chris Johnson
RSSOC 1979> Dark Star Coupé 1989> Scimitar France 2010> Vert Soleil GTC 2014>
Scimitar France Website No1 on Google, updated nearly every day

Post Reply

Return to “Projects”