6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by gtcse8 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:49 pm

Don`t know if it will help, but here are some of my spares.
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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by RichM » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:14 pm

Thanks for the pics, having fitted them again something is definitely wrong, I think it may be that I have a bent/twisted damper plate.
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Presumably the damper plate is supposed to be fairly flat but mine clearly appears to be lower on the left than the right, adding to the misalignment of the wishbones.
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I suppose I have 3 options:
1. Fit the trunnion first, then fit the plate and rely on the wishbone bolts to straighten the plate up, hopefully without putting too much more stress on the trunnion.
2. Heat and bash the plate back into shape.
3. Find better damper plates.

Time for a cuppa....



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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by Oldconn » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:58 pm

I would go for option 3 , and possibly adjust the packing washers to bring the ends of the wishbones level.


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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by gtcse8 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:59 pm

Rich check the arms are ok first.
Take them off and turn them upside down on a very flat surface.
Press them down so the machined bolt hole`s are on the flat and offer up the eyes to check they are parallel.
In pic 3981 the rear eye looks to be bent down more than the front.

Point is check them on a flat surface before condemning the damper plate.


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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by Old and Slow » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:13 pm

Here's a picture from the Triumph Manual:
Might help?
TR4 Suspension 14.pdf
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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:06 pm

What matters is distance apart of eye centres (rubber bush chassis end eyes and trunnion pin eyes). Casting differences may mean external end of any one looks a bit different to another.
To put your mind at rest measure from edge of one eye to edge of other eye (back end to back end or front to front) and you will find they will be the same. (I ground off some of the casting where the "seams" stick out more, just to make them smoother, look prettier, lighter and take less paint :) )

The rubber bushes should not make any difference to the distance away from the chassis of the trunnion bush eyes but if badly inserted and a bit is pinched and sticking out inside the eye then......... Leave the nuts/bolts of the pivots free to turn (do not tighten down to the prescribed torque...that comes last once car is standing on wheels and wishbones parallel to ground.

I have just done this job and found that it was best to leave the 4 damper bracket to wishbone bolts just free so bracket could just be moved around in relation to wishbones - the bracket has slotted holes. The trunnion bolt and assembly of washers, bushes and spacers can then be assembled and nearly tightened to correct torque. Screw the vertical link into the trunnion so you can feel that it, the trunnion and the bolt is freeish but a bit stiff to rotate in the wishbones.........hope you are going to drill and tap and fit grease nipples on the outer ends of wishbones?.

At this stage trunnion is all nicely fitted and freeish and can be torqued to final figure and split pin put in.......on mine it just happened that at 50ftlb the hole and nut castle lined up. Check again for freeish rotation of trunion. Now the 4 bracket-to-wishbone bolts can be torqued up.
I used a smear of araldite on the nylon bushes to ensure they would not rotate in the wishbones but would rotate around the spacer tubes as intended. At assembly I also smeared the outside of the metal spacer tubes and the inside of the nylon bushes with Molybdenum Disulphide (MOLY)(CV grease usually contains MOLY)(Moly is very persistent and stays when other grease has dried up) to encourage free slipperiness between the two, being careful not to get any on the very end faces that lock against the washers! Care must be taken that the rubber sealing rings go inside the lip of the cups and sit around the outside of the washers and are not twisted........bit fiddly getting all 4 to obey at once.
So - fit trunnion to wishbones then bracket to wishbones.
The final action is to pump grease into the 2 nipples while rotating vertical link to try and get grease oozing out around all 4 seals. I use Moly grease because it is very slippery(little flat molecular plates) and it is a nylon bush sliding on a steel spacer; the Moly stays even though the grease it is in may tend to dry up over time.....but regular greasing keeps it all fluid and water out.
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PS my preferance is to have a piece of wood between axle stand and chassis metal.......saves on too frequent chassis resprays :lol:
What car body polish do you intend to use on your newly painted suspension bits? :roll: Mine are covered in waxoil as can be seen making them look a bit rough.

Denis


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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:27 pm

RichM wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:57 am
In the pic the left one seems to come out 'longer' than the other, hence wondering if the pair that I fitted weren't matched properly, i.e. in a pair of wishbones does one have subtly different angles to the other (like a pair of top wishbones) meaning I may have them paired wrong resulting in a misaligned trunnion bolt hole...
I just wonder if the bracket screwed onto the chassis has more shims in on one side than the other?? When built the bottom brackets may or may not have been packed out to allow for chassis inaccuracy, and normally packing should not be changed (only top fulcrum shims get changed to set up camber/caster. Now if they were and a PO has taken one bracket off and inadvertently left off the packing then.......
However that is easy to check......put each wishbone on in turn and measure centre of trunnion bolt to a fixed point and if one is longer/shorter then you have a rogue/bent wishbone.


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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by derekoss » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:18 pm

I have always assumed the bottom brackets are set parallel to and equidistant from the car centre line.

I placed mine level over a level floor and dropped a line from a bolt placed through the holes. What you use as the centre line of a Reliant is anyone's guess !

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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by scimjim » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:51 pm

Top and bottom can all be shimmed to set camber/caster with half shims behind the upper fulcrum if necessary for caster.


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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by derekoss » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:46 pm

My understanding from the manual is that the bottom brackets are factory set and not to be disturbed.

Derek



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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by scimjim » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:42 pm

I can’t see where it says that. The 6 (Reliant) manual says the shims top and bottom are for camber adjustment and doesn’t mention caster at all, it later says that they’re all set at manufacture and shouldn’t need changing.

40 or 50 years on, I’d add shims top or bottom as required to set the camber and caster.


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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by RichM » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:27 pm

Apologies for not replying sooner, haven't managed any garage time for a week or two.

A brief update then, I started to assemble to the N/S which all seemed to go together much better. IN line with Dennis' comment above I kept the damper plate only very loosely bolted while I fitted the trunnion/vertical link, then bolted up the damper plate afterwards. Seemed to work well and most of it is now back together. Am currently in the middle of replacing wheel bearings & races. Have cleaned the old grease out of the hub (found several different types of grease in there justin by the colours & textures) so now just to re-assemble and try to finish the N/S.
Dennis Nicholas wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:06 pm
.....hope you are going to drill and tap and fit grease nipples on the outer ends of wishbones?.
I haven't actually done this despite reading about it, mainly because I don't have a tap/die set/run out of money/want to get it done. I am however re-considering and may borrow some taps and do it after all.
Dennis Nicholas wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:27 pm
I just wonder if the bracket screwed onto the chassis has more shims in on one side than the other??
I haven't noticed any shims on the bottom brackets but will have another look when back over there just in case.

Will put up a couple of pics later showing bits in place, will tor*ue up properly when car back on the ground as suggested (btw one of the keys on my keyboard has stopped working....its the one between P and R....hence the * :D )



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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by JoeySully » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:58 pm

I noticed when i placed a good wishbone arm on a bench with the eyes facing upwards that it would rock back and forth about 5mm on one of the casting nubs. The bent ones I had did not rock. It seems a bit late to compare now that you have one side done but its a good test to try.
I assembled the trunnion without the bottom bracket in place. I think its better to do it that way
If you suspect bent wishbone arms then the vertical like may be damaged too. To test put the trunnuon in a vice and place the VL into the trunnion. Rotate the VL back and forth while holding the arm of a rachet or similar into the upper ball joint hole. If the VL is bent you will see obvious movement of the ratchet left to right or gore and aft.



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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by RichM » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:05 am

JoeySully wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:58 pm
If you suspect bent wishbone arms then the vertical like may be damaged too.
Thanks Joey, unfortunately (or fortunately !?) my vert links were shot so I have new replacements, so thats one less thing to worry about.

N/S pic showing new trunnion, vertical link, track rod ends, upper ball joint, & bushes. Hopefully get some more time in the garage over the next few days.
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Dennis Nicholas wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:06 pm
What car body polish do you intend to use on your newly painted suspension bits?
I've got some waxoyl so I'll probably go over it all with that, though not until I'm sure it doesn't have to all come off again :D



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6a lower wishbones - what have I done wrong!?

Post by moulefrites » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:55 pm

Can anybody explain why a PAS car has the spacers (211607) between the damper bracket and the wishbone, and a non PAS car doesn't?



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