Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

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02Anders
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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by 02Anders » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:55 pm

Hello Gents,

So as I've advertised elsewhere - http://www.scimitarweb.co.uk/sgwrs/view ... =3&t=40344 - I'm about to set off on a little wintertime roadtrip to Denmark and back this coming February. As both Germany and Denmark require use of winter tyres at this time of the year, I'm now searching for something suitable to fit under the arches of my SE6a. The tyres need to have the "M+S Snowflake" symbol on them to be legal. However, the only winter tyres I can find in the correct 185 R14 size seem to all be advertised as tyres for vans.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this...?? Is there any reason why I should not use van tyres on my Scimitar winter roadtrip? I suppose four brand new winter tyres in the correct size ought to do the job, regardless of whether they're intended for cars or for vans. What say you??


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Anders Bilidt
ViaRETRO - Classics with a Scandinavian Flick...

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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by 02Anders » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:07 pm

Just to be a bit more precise, I'm considering something like this: https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... p=R-149013


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Anders Bilidt
ViaRETRO - Classics with a Scandinavian Flick...

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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by AJL Electronics » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:33 pm

If it is UK registered, they cannot expect you to conform to their Construction and Use regs Shirley?


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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by 02Anders » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:35 pm

AJL Electronics wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:33 pm
If it is UK registered, they cannot expect you to conform to their Construction and Use regs Shirley?
I'm not sure whether you mean their regs in terms of use of winter tyres or their regs in terms of tyres which suit the car??

What I do know as a fact is this: If driving in snow conditions in Germany during the winter period, it is a legal requirement to have "M+S Snowflake" marked winter tyres on the car. To clarify, if it's not snowing, then you don't need winter tyres even though it's winter. But how am I to establish before departure from the UK whether or not we might encounter snow during our travels?? These rules apply to all cars regardless of which country the car is registered in.

Furthermore, as a Dane I'm fairly used to driving in snow. Experience tells me that winter tyres make a massive difference, and regardless of what the legal requirements might be, I much prefer to drive on winter tyres during wintertime.

So my initial question isn't so much about winter tyres as it is about whether there might be anything I need to consider before fitting tyres intended for a van on my Scimitar...?? Van tyres have a much higher load factor than do tyres for ordinary cars. This I understand means that the tyre walls are much stiffer. I suppose that will lead to a less comfortable ride? But how much less comfortable should I expect it to be? Has anyone tried this before me?


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Anders Bilidt
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And a '63 Rochdale Olympic in a gazillion pieces!

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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by Nigel Clark » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:51 pm

I've never tried van tyres on a car but the general consensus is they are very hard, giving an uncomfortable ride with poor handling and grip on a car. Why not go for a 195/70-14 winter tyre, there are lots available? These fit the 14" Scimitar wheel very well, with rolling radius only 3% less than the standard 185/80-14. I've used this size (as a summer tyre) for several years because of the much wider choice of brands available.

Here's a Bridgestone winter tyre on Oponeo if you're after a premium brand:

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-details/b ... #239021008

There are also plenty of cheaper 195/70-14 winter tyre options.

Nigel



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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by Roger Pennington » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:58 pm

You're right that van tyres are designed for higher loads and crashing up and down kerbs on a regular basis, which means they have much stiffer carcases. Also the tread and compounds will be optimised for their intended use. I know Geoff Cooper used to use them on some of his historic rallying exploits, to reduce the risk of punctures when offroad in the desert, or where ever, but he reckoned they were pretty horrible on proper roads. Personally I've always regarded them as something to avoid (and as you would be using them for something they weren't designed for, there might be other (insurance??) implications? Have you tried looking at 195/70x14 size, which may be more widely available? I've used that size in a regular tyre without problems.


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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by erikscimitardemon » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:49 pm

Don't use Van type tyres an a motorcar. Not up for the job. Do buy a proper winter tyre. If you can't find them in the UK, plan a stop on the continent to get the tyres changed.
For what it worth, IMHO m+s tyres are not required in Germany for non-German reg cars. Only a fierce recommendation. When in an accident because of lack of grip, it will be your fault.
Do note you may need a 'Umweltplakete' when traveling outside motorways.


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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by 02Anders » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:51 pm

Thx for your input Gents.
You kinda confirmed my fears, and thus steered my away from van tyres.
Instead I've taken your advice and gone with 195/70 R14 winter tyres instead. Opted for Fulda Kristall Montero tyres. I've had Fulda winter tyres previously and while they're not as impressive an Conti or Michelin tyres, I find they're a really good compromise at a very decent price. I'm sure they will do me and the family well on our Scimitar winter roadtrip... :D


Kind Regards,
Anders Bilidt
ViaRETRO - Classics with a Scandinavian Flick...

'78 Reliant Scimitar GTE SE6a
A small handful of 70's BMW's
And a '63 Rochdale Olympic in a gazillion pieces!

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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by Nigel Clark » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:42 pm

I'm sure that will prove to be a good choice of tyre. Have a great trip!

Nigel



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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by Chgperformance » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:11 pm

I have Van tyre's on my se5. I have thrown it into corners fairly hard and not experienced any loss of grip, yet! I was stuck on choices for tyre's during my resto, didn't want to pay a ridiculous amount for historic tyre's when i wanted to get it rolling before it was finished.



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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by _Zeb_ » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:15 pm

erikscimitardemon wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:49 pm
Do note you may need a 'Umweltplakete' when traveling outside motorways.
For old cars, including Euro1, you don't need a "Umweltplakete" but you have to be aware of the restrictions.

Regarding van tyres, this is what the PO of my Scimitar has installed. They are very slippy on the wet (ok, they are "new" but are 10 years old which doesn't help at all). This is the first thing I will change when I will have the registration (with 195/70).



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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by scimitarpete » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:27 pm

If you drive on van tyres in Germany and have an accident you will be prosecuted. Van tyres do not have the appropriate speed rating and proper snow tyres are essential.


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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by Chgperformance » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:38 pm

scimitarpete wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:27 pm
If you drive on van tyres in Germany and have an accident you will be prosecuted. Van tyres do not have the appropriate speed rating and proper snow tyres are essential.
I wonder where you would stand then, two choices. Tyres with snow markings but Van tyres, or non van tyres but no snow markings?



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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by AllingtonGT » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:24 pm

Anders, Think you've got a good deal for those tyres and they are a good price.

On older vehicles that wore cross-ply tyres from new, it's not unusual to choose a van tyre to benefit from radial handling improvements, but get a similar profile to the cross ply.

There is a huge price difference with a good van tyre costing circa £60 against a specialist cross ply costing close to £200. As long as you're not entering concours events it's not such an issue. I thought about it long and hard before I moved to van radials but now I have, I've lost that wandering that cross plys deliver and driving is altogether more relaxing and enjoyable.

I've now tried a number of different makes and whilst I don't use my older vehicles in the snow (no heater or demister) I would make the following comments.

Many van tyres have only three grooves running around the circumference and they can pick up and fire quite large debris off the road into your wheel arches. I look for tyres that have four (thinner) grooves and the van tyres you'd suggested do have four.

Running the van tyres softer than they would be on a "Sprinter" doesn't seem detrimental to the handling maybe because of the 8 ply and stronger sidewalls? Some of my friends are very happy using van tyres on their powerful (200bhp+) old timer cars for use on track days, which they do with great success, in all weathers and with virtually no wear! But then they are a lot slower than a "Sprinter".

I was concerned that the 8 ply tyres might not balance well, but they seem no worse than normal tyres. The bigger problem is worn stud holes on 70 year old wheels which the heavier radial does seem to highlight.

Whilst I'd never fit the cheapest van tyre I'd say from experience that for the type of excursion you were planning, four up, with luggage and expecting to encounter snow, the Winter van tyres wouldn't have been a awful choice but it's moot given you got Winter car tyres for a similar price!
Geoff
Last edited by AllingtonGT on Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Using van winter tyres on a Scimitar?

Post by AllingtonGT » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:31 pm

Chgperformance wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:38 pm
scimitarpete wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:27 pm
If you drive on van tyres in Germany and have an accident you will be prosecuted. Van tyres do not have the appropriate speed rating and proper snow tyres are essential.
I wonder where you would stand then, two choices. Tyres with snow markings but Van tyres, or non van tyres but no snow markings?
I think German vans are likely to be whole lot faster than Anders (no offence!). A classic UK car on 8 ply Winter tyres illegal?



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