Changing timing gears

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Flackstead
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Changing timing gears

Post by Flackstead » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:28 pm

I'm sure this has been covered many times . How long roughly to fit new timing gears ? Any specialist equipment reqd ? Any handy tips ? I'm quite competent at most things mechanical but it's always good to glean tips or hinds from people who have done it already . Many thanks



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scimjim
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Re: Changing timing gears

Post by scimjim » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:36 pm

There's a thread somewhere already.

Edit - it's been archived in the members section here, which you can't access.

Basically you need a sump gasket (timing cover gasket and crank front seal should be with the kit). Make sure number one is at TDC on compression, disconnect battery and remove spare wheel, tray and cross brace. Undo crank pulley bolt (make sure engine doesn't turn) and remove pulley - PAS cars will need the pump loosening, belt removing and pulley adaptors removing (I'm not sure if you need to remove the pump for access?) Disconnect fuel pipes and remove front cover. Remove cam bolt, fuel pump eccentric drive and camwheel. You need to remove the fuel pump wheel roll pin from the camwheel and fit to the new wheel. if your set includes a crank wheel, remove the old one.

Refitment is the reverse of removal :-)


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
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Re: Changing timing gears

Post by philhoward » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:38 pm

I have it in the back of my head Roger P did a write up?


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Re: Changing timing gears

Post by Roger Pennington » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:50 pm

No, I can't claim the credit, though I have contributed to a few threads over the years. One that particularly springs to mind is Shedtune's Project Thread here which starting from that point has a fairly graphic illustration of why changing it is a good idea, and then has a series of posts (from me and others) which I think covers most of the main points?


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Re: Changing timing gears

Post by scimjim » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:09 am

It appears that a little weasel has reported my post for contravening forum rules :-)

So here it is again, perhaps you will grow the balls to contact me directly or report it to the moderating team like the forum rules instruct you to - instead of sneaking off to the Chairman to report me :mrgreen:

Apologies for the poor format, it's originally from the yahoo site, copied into Don Kennedy's FAQ doc. I've edited it slightly to remove some duplicated info but I'm sure there's at least one person that can read it :lol:

Cam Gear Change.

The front pulley will come off OK - might take a tap with a wooden drift but they normally just pull off by hand.

The cover seals at the bottom against the sump gasket & is held by a number of sump bolts so you need to either take great care not to tear the sump gasket or better still have a replacement to hand. At worst you'll only need to replace the section under the front cover.

If yours is the early engine (front dipstick) you need to centre the cover when fitting it. The later one self-centres.

As far as backlash is concerned take the advice of the person from whom you bought the timing wheel.

I'd remove the cross member. To do so loosen all fasteners slightly then use a jack on one chassis rail below the cross member location to take some of the weight of the car. Remove fasteners & release X-member. You can remove the jack until you come to refit the cross member - it just helps free it & helps it to drop into the correct position upon replacement. A light coat of grease on the cross member end plates helps as well & prevents corrosion.

There is no backlash adjustment as such. Originally it was set using a selection of crankshaft gears. Shouldn't worry - it won't be too tight & a little too much backlash is harmless.

On my engines the fan pulley comes off easily with a puller and I presume it will come off easily without one by just gentle appropriate tapping with a wedge.

Sooner is good. I bought my first 5A in 1981. I was advised by a police mechanic friend to change the timing wheel & oil pump drive so I went out & bought the parts. Within a week of doing so & on my first motorway trip the fibre wheel failed damaging 11 out of twelve valves. The new timing wheel was on the back seat at the time. I'd had the car 10 days when it happened.

Personally I wouldn't try to do this without also removing the sump completely. It's not that much additional aggro, the only extra cost is a new sump gasket and some oil - and it avoids the risk that you'll damage both the front edge of the sump gasket and the crankshaft oil seal when trying to refit the timing cover. The problem you'll find is that there isn't any clearance to allow you to keep the bottom of the cover clear of the sump while you negotiate the crank seal over the end of the crank. You might also take the opportunity to flatten the mating face of the sump, which will inevitably have been dimpled by over tightening the bolts and in all probability leaks as a result. There are other benefits too like cleaning the congealed gunge off the screen filter.

You probably know that the steel wheel is going to be noisier than the original but I thought I better mention it in case you don’t and get a shock when you first start the car again. On our 5A it was very noisy but on the coupe it seemed to make little difference so it varies from engine to engine but the noise does decrease with time – sounds a bit like a supercharger which is quite nice.

A word of caution...... there has been lots of very good advice - and I would endorse the sump removal as gasket damage and poor front cover alignment is quite likely. HOWEVER from bitter and stupid personal experience.... DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO USE A HAMMER TO GET THE NEW TIMING GEAR ONTO THE CAMSHAFT !!!!. You will end up driving the blanking plug from the rear of the engine and then the gearbox will have to come out. Use a bolt to draw the wheel on instead. Hope I caught you in time.

Camwheel Change, 2.

I hope this weekend to replace the Timing Wheel with a Steel one. Is it as simple as removing the Cover, replacing the Timing Wheel by aligning the marks, refitting the Cover and all sorted? Could I expect problems removing the Crank Belt Pulley, I am unsure if my Puller will fit the Pulley so are there any Hints/Tips in removing it. I believe that I do not have to worry about backlash or any adjustments, is it just a bolt on replacement. I will be replacing Gasket and Oil Seal. If anyone has any ideas that will make this job easier I would be grateful for suggestions.

It's as you say. The front pulley will come off OK - might take a tap with a wooden drift but they normally just pull off by hand. The cover seals at the bottom against the sump gasket & is held by a number of sump bolts so you need to either take great care not to tear the sump gasket or better still have a replacement to hand. At worst you'll only need to replace the section under the front cover. If yours is the early engine (front dipstick) you need to centre the cover when fitting it. The later one self-centres. As far as backlash is concerned take the advice of the person from whom you bought the timing wheel.

Not a difficult job. Line the two marks, one on the old cam wheel and one on the crankshaft....once you have taken the timing case off of course. Undo the bolt that holds the cam wheel in place and draw off the wheel, some slip off some need a bit of thinking about...yours will probably be the latter.
I seem to remember that there was insufficient room to get a puller in behind the cam gear but if it is a Ford there are some holes that you can use.
Slide the new wheel on making sure that the marks line up.
Put a smear of locktite on the cam bolt don't forget the large thrust washer and tighten up to 40-45 lbs.
The tricky bit comes now when you refit the timing case. If you decided not to replace the sump gasket, I never have when doing the job, then you will have to be careful when you take the case off not to destroy the bit of the sump gasket that the case sits on. What you do when you fit the case is to apply gasket cement; I prefer Red Hematite (made by the same people as Hylomar by the way) to both surfaces and then fit the case into position.
While you are doing all this think how lucky you are that it is not a 2.8 when the gear wheel is alloy and the crankshaft pinion is changed as well...and no skiving off not taking the sump off for that charade I can tell you. When you first run the steel cam gear it will be noisy most of them are, but don't worry it will settle down and in about 7K you will hardly hear it........a bit like living next to a railway line.

On a slightly different note, is it possible to check if the cam wheel has already been replaced by a previous owner without disturbing the timing cover, sump and the associated gaskets? Can you see the timing wheel if you remove the fuel pump for example and peer in the hole in the cover with a torch? Is a replacement wheel obviously different to the original fibre wheel when viewed with a torch through a small hole?.

The original wheel was dark brown, the nylon one has greyish / opaque teeth with a metal centre and the SS one is rather obvious grey and all metal. Yes you probably can see which you have through the Fuel pump hole with a torch.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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