Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

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Jpwill7675
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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by Jpwill7675 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:06 pm

I have a SE5a manual overdrive. I have just put the engine /gearbox back in the car after giving the engine a complete strip down. The car was running ok before but was noisy and running roughly. The problem was identified as a bent pushrod.

On installation the engine turns over but wont start. There does not appear to be any spark. I have checked at the distributor king lead and one of the individual spark plug leads - no spark.

The car has electronic ignition. The wiring as follows:

There is only one lead on the positive terminal of the ignition coil and that goes to the distributor.

The negative terminal has three leads attached. One goes to the distributor. One (White) lead goes into the wiring harness near the battery and has 12 V when the ignition is switched on. The third lead (White/Yellow) goes down to the engine bay in the direction of the starter motor. That lead does not appear to carry any voltage when the ignition is switch on or off. Some of the wiring in the engine bay has become brittle over time and I wondered if I might have snapped a lead during the installation process. I cant see any visible signs of damage.

I would appreciate any advice you can offer to help me troubleshoot this issue.

Thanks, Jim


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scimjim
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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by scimjim » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:32 pm

the white lead (+12v ignition) and the white/yellow (+12v ballast bypass - live only when the starter is spinning) should be on the coil + terminal.

The electronic ignition supply can also be connected to the coil + or a seperate ignition live.

The coil - terminal (green/black originally) should then go to the dizzy.

ie the coil is connected the wrong way round :D


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

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Jpwill7675
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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by Jpwill7675 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:44 am

Thanks for the quick reply Jim. I will swap the wiring over as suggested this afternoon and update later.


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Jpwill7675
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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by Jpwill7675 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:37 pm

I have swapped the wires over this afternoon but still have no spark. I have swapped over the distributor cap and a new set of leads but there was still no spark.

Can you advise what to check next? Could I have "zapped" the ignition module (Powerspark) or the ignition coil by reversing the polarity?

PS. I haven't connected up the gear linkages or the prop shaft yet. I don't suppose the O/D inhibitor switch would affect the ignition circuit?

Thanks for any further advice. Jim



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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by scimjim » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:00 pm

Could be the coil or the powerspark if there’s no spark at the king lead. Do you have a multimeter to test the coil?

O/d switch won’t affect it.


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

Jpwill7675
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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by Jpwill7675 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:15 pm

Thanks for the quick reply. I have wired a "trigger" wire to the +ve terminal of the coil and connected a grounded spark plug directly to the king lead (intention being to mimic the action of the points/ electronic switch). On touching the trigger off the engine, there was a spark at the contact point but nothing at the spark plug.

I have rechecked that there is 12V at the white wire (now on +ve terminal) when ignition switch on. I also measured 12V through the king lead . I have a multimeter but unsure of the test process to check the coil.

Thanks again, Jim


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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by scimjim » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:53 pm

From a quick search:

The "book" says ( god love it ) around 0.8 ohms across the primary (the two wire connections + and - ) and between either of them and the secondary connection (king lead) between 4.5 and 7 thousand ohms.


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

Jpwill7675
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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by Jpwill7675 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:20 pm

Thanks Jim- will check it tomorrow.


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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by Jpwill7675 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:55 am

The coil has 3.2 ohms across the primary and 10.6 thousand ohms across the secondary connection. Assuming the coil may be at fault, the simple solution may be to install a new coil. There is no identifying marks on the coil. Should I go for a 12V non ballasted coil suitable for electronic ignition. Any other thoughts?



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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by scimjim » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:52 am

DLB110 for use with a ballast system.


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by philhoward » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:54 pm

3.2 Ohms sounds well out of spec to me - I've got in my head you have about 1 Ohm (which ties in with "the book") for a ballast system and 1.6 Ohms for a non-ballast coil. Higher Ohms means less current, which in turn means insufficient energy to make the electrons jump the gap. Having heard mixed reviews of "alternative" coils, I'd go straight for a genuine Lucas one from a trusted supplier rather than the cheapest "Lucas style" from eBay or the like.


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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:21 pm

I thought standard non-ballast systems had a 3 ohm coil, and ballasted systems used a 1.5 ohm coil with a 1.6 ohm ballast resistor (all figures approximate). An exception to that, I think, is some special electronic systems (capacitive discharge ??) which need a special coil?

Assuming this is a standard 5a, wouldn't it have been ballasted with a eureka wire? If that's still the case, then yes, it sounds like it needs a ballasted system coil.


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Jpwill7675
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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by Jpwill7675 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:55 pm

Thanks for the feedback, Jim, Phil & Roger.

I bought a new Powerspark module and new ballasted coil (DLB110). I exchanged the ignition module but kept the original coil. The car started straight away and ran fine. I don't know if the car has been modified or the ballast bypassed but the car seems to start and run ok with the 3 ohm coil. I am going to let sleeping dogs lie and not change anything else at the moment. I just need to refit the gear selector arms, the prop-shaft, the clutch slave cylinder and the bonnet ready for a proper test drive. I am planning on a trip to Bristol on Saturday with a following wind.

I did notice that the brake servo hose had flattened probably because I routed it too close to the exhaust manifold. I there any spec, or can I simply buy a length of water or fuel hose of suitable internal diameter.

Thanks again - I am looking forward to getting out in the car again.

Regards, Jim


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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by philhoward » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:57 pm

You’ll need specific servo hose otherwise it will collapse under the vacuum very quickly. 3/8” (or 10mm) is readily available in 1m lengths which will do the job with ease.


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Car turns over but wont start (No spark)

Post by scimjim » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:31 pm

Excellent :D

I shall be going South past Brizzle early Saturday - on my way to Wiscombe Park with G97 on a trailer :P


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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